Benefits of Sexual Activity on Psychological, Relational, and Sexual Health During the COVID-19 Breakout

Topics Discussed Include the Following…

*Penile Rehabilitation post prostate surgery
*Shock Wave Therapy
Benefits of Sexual Activity on Psychological, Relational, and Sexual Health During the COVID-19 Breakout
*Peyronie’s disease treatments
*Priapus Shot® (P-Shot®)
*Safety in the Office with COVID
*O-Shot® for Urinary Incontinence

Video/Recording of CMA Journal Club, Pearl Exchange, & Marketing Tips



About two years ago, I was teaching a workshop at my class and a urologist was there, who was head of the department at a prominent hospital/university. And in the process of talking about some of the procedures and some of the ideas in the group, I mentioned Dr. George Ibrahim. And when I did, the response I got was like I was talking about, I don’t know, St. Peter or [inaudible 00:00:51] or something.


So, our guest today, Dr. Ibrahim, has a lot of respect. He was teaching urologist at Duke for quite a time and then opened a private practice. Like all of us, he was in the fire, paid his dues, and then none of us want to stop. And so he’s built up multiple located … I think he has two locations now where he does our procedures and continues to teach for us. But it’s really been interesting to learn from him because the combination of his ideas about urology and combined with his ideas about our procedures have been unique and helpful. So I think without any further delay, let me just pull him onto the call so he can answer some of the questions that have come up and talk about some of the ideas that have occurred to him during his work. So let me just get him on the call right now.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Dr. George Ibrahim

Fine. Hello Charles.


There you are. Yes. Thank you again for being on our call today. Lots of people are on the call. I put out a sort of a teaser, let people know that you would be here. So, quite a crowd today. And a backlog of questions from people about things that I want your opinion about. Just so you guys know, Dr. Ibrahim and I spoke briefly yesterday, but most of the stuff that I’ll be asking, I’ll be as curious as anybody about what his thinking is. We haven’t had an in-depth discussion for a while. So, why don’t we just start off with the list I have here of topics that occurred to you that might be helpful. George teaches for us. And so he’s alert to the problems and the challenges that come when you introduce these procedures to your practice as well as to the science and the discussion that’s going on in the medical literature and among our group.


So, I have this list of potential topics. You can just start wherever you want, and I know everyone will be interested in your ideas. I can list them all for you if you want. The first thing I had here was dyspareunia, if you want to start with that one, because it’s such a hard problem. To me, that’s the worst of the sexual dysfunctions for women because they can fake arousal or even accommodate lovingly without a high sex drive. And an orgasm sometimes is not necessary. Women with pain will start to avoid their lovers. So let’s start with that one since that’s such a tough one


Dr. Ibrahim:

Well, Charles, thank you too so much for your introduction. I do appreciate you give me a chance to be here with you. This is an honor, and I hope we can make everybody’s time worthwhile. So to get straight to your topic, I really think that without addressing a female’s hormonal balance at that time of her age, you’re not going to make much headway. Borrowing a history of breast cancer that’s ER positive, there’s really no reason to not optimize the female’s hormones, everything from the lubrication that it brings to bring it back, the vaginal walls and helping with the tissue paper aspect that you see once a woman goes through menopause. These are the kinds of things that I really think, unless you’re going to be able to do that, you’re going to have a hard time.

Dr. Ibrahim:

I do think that the O-Shot can help, but unless she’s got some [ } on board, and that can be done topically and regionally. It doesn’t have to be done systemically, but I think that’s one of the first thing that at least that’s what I always tell one of these kinds of women that have suffered from this problem.


Yeah. I like to stress to people that so far in spite of several years of campaigning for it, I like to stress to people that it’s really all we’re doing, these [PRP/cellular] procedures, is just making that local tissue healthier, but there’s so many other parts involved in the sexual response from the spinal cord, to the psychology of our thoughts, to the hormonal [inaudible 00:05:24] you that has to do. Without hormones, we can’t even make collagen or have blood flow. Hormones make our heart pump. So, there’s this system, and I’ve been campaigning that we talk in systems analysis the way we talk about a neurological system and a cardiovascular system. And the reproductive system is not the same as the orgasm system or the sexual response system. So, stressing that to our patients so we’re not over promising them a magic shot, but helping them, although it can be like magic sometimes, but helping them understand there’s this whole system we have to think about.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Absolutely. And with testosterone going to zero in almost every one of the menopausal women I see are almost undetectable. There’s no way that there’s going to be any desire or lost. And while you might be able to help with the lubrication, without that mental stimulation or desire, it’s not going to be a fun experience. It might not be painful anymore, but it’s hardly enjoyable from what I hear from my patients.


So talk to us about how you think about, so you first start with optimizing their hormonal status. And there’s so many … The diagnosis, I’m almost regretting now starting with this because the diagnosis of dyspareunia is so complicated. But, maybe a fairly quick overview of how you think about that diagnosis, everything from dryness with breast cancer to surgical problems, so that maybe at least give an outline for the people on the call.

Dr. Ibrahim:

I think that the biggest part of the pain that a woman [inaudible 00:07:06] has and comes to fear when it comes to sex after menopause, is that the vaginal epithelium has become so atrophic. And without a nice beefy, robust, lubricated, thicker vaginal wall, so the vaginal walls, any kind of sex is going to be painful. And that’s where I’m going with it all.


Okay. So when you do your procedure with the O-Shot, because you know you can have the dryness for breast cancer or you can have a pelvic floor tenderness, you can have an episiotomy that’s tearing, not mentioning the things like ovarian cyst and uterine fibroids, but the things that we can address with an O-Shot, can you talk how you might vary the how you do the procedure with a woman who has tenderness that it’s in a particular spot versus just overall dyspareunia from say dryness?

Dr. Ibrahim:

What I’ll typically do, if she is in menopause and she has been away from any kind of estrogen production for a few years, I’ll try to see if she’s against doing systemic hormones to see if she would do around about three to four weeks of topical extra dial. A lot of folks like to use a combination of estriol and estradial. I think estradiol is much more powerful, but I try to get them to do about three to four weeks prior to doing an O-Shot, telling them that it’s going to make, the O-Shot’s ability to repair tissue and strength the things and all the magic that the O-Shot does, a lot more [inaudible 00:08:49] better blood flow in the face of the O-Shot if she can do some estrogen for a while ahead of time. So I’ll try to get you to do that for about a month. And then I’ll go ahead and do the O-Shot.

Dr. Ibrahim:

And oftentimes, especially in women that have been in menopause without being on estrogen, I will oftentimes warn them ahead of time, “Look, we’re going to see some results from one. It might be phenomenal, but don’t hold off on doing a second one within two to three months after the first one to augment the effect of the first one.” Especially, again, if she’s not been doing estrogen.


Okay. So, I know you have an upcoming class and I want to put this in the chat box so you guys will have access to it before I forget to do this. And Dr. Ibrahim, as I mentioned, was a highly respected teacher of surgical procedures. And I’ve seen him teach there in his office. And he’s patient and articulate and cordial and inspiring. So I highly recommend his class if you’re looking for some hands-on work. And he’s squeezed it into one day by leaving out the aesthetics part and focusing really heavily on the sexual medicine for both men and women.


I know this, in your course, you’ll talk some about radio-frequency and laser technologies. And I actually got a question today about Emsella. Maybe just expand upon your ideas about things to do along with when it comes to the machines. Because I know people are either have them or contemplating them. So radio-frequency, laser and magnets, could you talk about how you work those into your protocols?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Absolutely. And before I do that, I’m going to put the plug in for the workshop. It’s going to be March the fourth. We’ll just squeeze everything into one day. Fortunately, I’ve had COVID and my first vaccine, so has my physician’s assistant, and the majority of my staff. But, we’re going to do what we have to do. That all being said, I do use enhancement. Patients are given the option. Some patients only want to get another shot or a Priapus Shot®. Some have heard about some of these other methods. I’m not here to do a commercial for any particular device.

Combining Shock Wave with the P-Shot® Procedure (timing)

Dr. Ibrahim:

I chose a laser over radio-frequency but I’ve seen both of them were great. I just chose not to have two devices that accomplish basically the same thing. So, I use a laser, but I’ve no … It’s done essentially the exact same way as radio frequency. And I use that often when I’m doing my O-Shots. And then with men, even if they don’t want to sign up for an acoustic wave treatment series, are pretty much always we’ll do some acoustic wave treatment just prior to injecting them for their P-Shot because I think that the [inaudible 00:12:04] trauma that we’re producing and increasing the blood flow from that acoustic wave treatment absolutely helps keep the PRP in place and excite the growth factors to do the jobs that we’re hoping that they’re going to do.

Dr. Ibrahim:

That all being said, my staff loves doing these workshops. And we’ve missed it for all the travel restrictions this past year. And so we’re itching to get back in it because they have fun doing it. They love seeing me teach because I know that’s where I used to do it. You may say I’m always my most excited and happiest when I get to teach. And so it’s always a fun event.


Beautiful. Yeah. So if you guys are interested in that, click the link now because the link goes away when the webinar’s over and then you’ll have that page open. So, you will sometimes do a shockwave therapy at least briefly, even if they haven’t asked for it, just prior to a P-Shot. Let’s say that they go for it and they say, “Money’s not an object, I live down the street, Tom’s not a problem,” what would be your Cadillac treatment for a man with, let’s start with Peyronie’s disease, what would be your protocol?


Because here’s the thing, I get the questions all the time. We’re still working on getting enough research out there. We have some. People act like we have none, sometimes our critics. We actually have a pretty good list of papers now over the past five or 10 years, talking about our stuff. I’ll just give you the list for the Priapus Shot. And it’s not a thousand papers, but that’s a pretty impressive, I don’t know, it’s probably 20 papers out there talking about PRP in the penis now. But there isn’t this goal [inaudible 00:13:52]. It’s like if you run a 100 yard dash, you know when the race is over. But the effort to convince our colleagues that PRP is a viable option where it becomes standard of care for every urologist and every family practitioners treating Peyronie’s erectile dysfunction, there’s no discreet line that’s, okay, now we all start to do this.

Combination Therapies for Peyronie’s Disease


So, even more so if you start combining, okay, what’s the best algorithm if you’re going to combine it with shockwave. And there isn’t no published study that says, “This is the best, and this is what the recipe should be.” So when I get those questions, I’m always curious to what your protocol would be for someone with unlimited funds, unlimited time, how would you treat Peyronie’s?

Dr. Ibrahim:

That’s a great question. And I’m thrilled that you told people we all have different recipes for cooking a pound cake, basically. Because the science isn’t out there and I’ll give you my rationale reasoning for doing it. They’re offered the choice off easily. Again, just the Priapus Shot® or the acoustic wave treatment combined with a Priapus Shot®, when they choose the combination, which the vast majority do. Part of that, the reason is we make it much more attractive for them to do it as a package financially. But more importantly, I know that we’re going to see a better end result, have a happier patient. And I’ve said this, especially in my aesthetics practice, nobody is ever upset by spending more than they plan to spend if they get a better result than they thought they were going to get.

Dr. Ibrahim:

And so with that in mind, and just assuming they’re planning on doing both acoustic wave and the Priapus Shot® at the same time, for Peyronie’s, right off the bat, tell them this is not going to be a one and done situation. “Peyronie’s, Mr. Jones, that’s going to be something that we’re looking at. I want you to be scheduled for at least two of the Priapus Shot®.” Again, there’s the financial incentive that it’s not two times one cost. And I will typically start by doing the acoustic wave treatment. And I identified the plaque for our medical assistants who are the ones who deliver the acoustic wave treatments. And they’ve been very, very well-trained because my grasp of the penile anatomy and everything. But I have them concentrate a lot of the acoustic energy on the plaque itself.

Dr. Ibrahim:

And typically, we’ll have them do three acoustic wave treatments in a row. Mostly depending on how far away they live, typically a week apart. And when they come back to their third or their fourth acoustic wave treatment, right after they’ve had the acoustic wave treatment, I’ll do the Priapus Shot®. And just if people are taking notes, men who have acoustic wave treatments do not need to be numbed, but if I’m going to be doing a Priapus Shot®, I’ll go ahead and place my penile block before they do the acoustic wave for one reason, impatient. This guarantees that the guy sat around for at least 20 minutes letting the block sink. Number two, if I missed one of the nerves, they’re able to tell the medical assistant, “My right side of my penis is completely numb but I can still feel it on the left, and she lets me know when I come back in there and augment it.”

Dr. Ibrahim:

So I’ll do the first Priapus Shot® in the middle of the acoustic wave treatment. And then I’ll do the last or the second Priapus Shot® following the same day of the final acoustic wave treatment and then see how they go from there, telling them ahead of time, we’re probably going to have to do some kind of maintenance afterwards, meaning maybe one acoustic wave treatment a month and maybe a Priapus Shot® once or twice a year, depending on how they are or what kind of results that they get from their Peyronie’s. And one more thing before I go much further. This is one of the times where I’m very insistent on the penile pump or the vacuum erection device.


[crosstalk 00:18:10]. That was my question.

Penis Pump Tips

Dr. Ibrahim:

Yes. Okay. We have templates that every patient gets, and it has a video and it has their instructions because they’re going to forget 90% of what you tell them in the office. But the first line of the penile pump instruction is, this is frustrating. You’re going to feel like you need a third hand to hold down your scrotum while you hold the cylinder and the other hand holds the pump. You’re going to figure it out. But I always try to teach them how to use the pump. At the initial conversation, set the time that they show up for their [inaudible 00:18:46] wave treatment and a P-Shot, they have already used the pump. The last thing I want them to do is to go home after a Priapus Shot®, I’m not going to let them do it while they’re still numb. So then the next day they try to do it and if it’s the first time they’ve done it, they’re going to be a little sore. And so it’s much better to teach the guy how to use the pump and become proficient in it before you start your other treatments.


Let me just jump in with a couple of amens here. First of all, I want those of you who haven’t seen this, I want you to see that there is a study from the British Journal of Urology that’s been out now for a decade that shows that people who had scheduled surgery for Peyronie’s disease, 51% of them canceled it with a pump alone. And so you’ve got some science to back that up, but there is some frustration with the pump. And George is the first that I’ve heard come up with a great idea that’s like a lot of great ideas, simple after someone thinks of it, is that oftentimes the complaints people have as side effects from the Priapus Shot, they’re really blaming the side effects of the Priapus Shot on their misunderstanding of the pump. So having them do that for a week or two or some amount of time before they get the shot helps them sort that out and less likely to think that the procedure went wrong. And that’s how you’ve done it for a while, right?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Absolutely. And ever since we started doing this way, the number of callbacks, I don’t like using the word complaints, concerns has dropped dramatically. Because there’s rarely a concern after a Priapus Shot®, but the pump, if they don’t use it correctly, they over … I literally take a black sharpie and mark out a good portion of the dial and say, “There’s no reason to ever go past this line.” You don’t even have to go all the way to this line, but don’t ever go pass it because some guys would think, “Well, if one’s better, then four must be even much better.” And they would overpump and then it would not be good.


Yep. So, another, Dr. Ibrahim, on the call. I’m going to unmute him. He has a question. Actually, I’ve got a pretty good line of questions here. So, let me see, where do you get … Here we go. Dr. Ibrahim, you’re unmuted. If you want to go ahead and just ask your question. I can read it if you don’t have your mic on.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Okay. The only questions I see are links. So I don’t know what kind of question [inaudible 00:21:41].


Well, I can read it to you. I’ll just read it out. It looks like maybe his mic is not working. He just wants to know the ideal candidate for the P-Shot, what medicines are you giving after the shot like you putting on daily Cialis or something, any over-the-counter things you’re doing? I think that’s it. So medicines afterward, over-the-counter things, and what’s your ideal candidate for the procedure?

Dr. Ibrahim:

I don’t mean this flippantly, but I think all of us, we all know if you start with a really good canvas, you’re going to be able to get a nice painting. The ideal candidate is the guy who barely needs half [inaudible 00:22:21], I’m assuming, the P-Shot. Somebody who’s got great vasculature, good blood flow, great neurologic issues going on, they’re not smoking, they’re not overweight. But that’s not reality really, but that’s the ideal candidate, is the one that he’s not up to the performance he was at 22 but he’s still doing a good job. That’s the kind of guy I love seeing walk in the door because that’s going to be the home run.

Dr. Ibrahim:

The much older guy, the 78, six, year old man with history of renal problems, terrible Batchelor disease, diabetes, [inaudible 00:23:01] and all that. As far as over-the-counter stuff, and that is not what I give them, it’s what I tell them not to do. We have another handout telling them no [inaudible 00:23:15] and we list as many as we can because people don’t know that Excedrin is aspirin. And telling them, none of those for a week ahead of time. And for at least a week, if not more, after we do the procedure.

Dr. Ibrahim:

As far as a low dose daily Cialis … Now that the PD5 drugs are generic basically, it’s a lot easier to tell somebody to do it. I typically ask them right off the bat, have they ever tried one of the other or any of them? And a good many will say, “Yeah, I tried Viagra and I couldn’t stand the headache, but Cialis tended to not work as well, but I didn’t have the … I was [inaudible 00:24:02],” or vice versa. And I will write for some [trockies 00:24:08] just because that’s what I got used to back when these drugs were not completely generic and you couldn’t really write for pill form and get away with it. So I do have trockies that have either and/or Cialis or sildenafil in them, that I will tell them, “This could help you with everything that’s going on here.” And the biggest part of that is helping to increase blood flow. And I do tell them, especially in the beginning, it’s not a homework assignment they have to do, or they can tell their wives, “Yeah, it’s a homework [inaudible 00:24:40].” They must do but I wanted to have as many erections as possible after a Priapus Shot® as they can have to stimulate the blood flow.


Yeah. That’s my aftercare instructions too, go home and have sex. Let me just quickly rattle off what I tell people the easy and hard cases and you expand on it, correct it, a different opinion, whatever. This is not a place for everybody just to try to agree. We’re swapping ideas. I tell people, “Avoid the person that a thousand or a million times zero is still zero.” So I tell people, “Avoid treating or at least make it a small percentage of your treatment, so you don’t get to discourage, the person who can they do Viagra or they do TriMix and just nothing happens. They never get in the morning erection, they’ve had diabetes for 20 years because they probably have vascular disease all the way, iliacs to the heart, aorta, whatever. So, and all we’re doing is treating the penis.

Who NOT to Treat with the Priapus Shot® Procedure


Although I have heard people say they get great results with some of these patients, keep them to a minimum so you don’t get discouraged. And if that’s your first three patients with a P-Shot, you’re going to be discouraged. I try to avoid the person whose main goal in life is to grow their penis to some significant amount more than what GOD gave them, because it’s hard to make that person happy. I want the person who has Peyronie’s … The thing is our easy list is still everybody else’s hard list. I want the person who has Peyronie’s because I have a high success rate. I want the guy who had prostate surgery, who’s now been dismissed by the surgeon. Here’s where I really want you to help refine my ideas or correct them or expand them.


I want the guy who’s had prostate surgery, who had erections before the surgery, who’s now been dismissed by the surgeon and he’s not happy with what’s going on. And then add in the P-Shot to the usual penile rehabilitation of a pump and daily Cialis. And I want the guy who’s got an erection, but it ain’t what they used to be, but he’s got something. He takes Viagra. He takes TriMix or he’s trying to avoid getting started on it. And then with that person, I’m going to be able to maybe cut the dose in half. He’s okay if his penis gets a little bigger, but it’s not his main primary goal in life. Expand on that, especially the penile rehabilitation, where would you correct me or expand upon what I just said?

Dr. Ibrahim:

[inaudible 00:27:12] I’m going to start with the first thing you said about … The example I used with my staff, and not necessarily in front of the patient, but they get the idea of why I don’t take that patient home. The patient that walks in and they’re so excited to see me, “I’ve heard so much about you Dr. Ibrahim, nobody’s ever been able to help me with this. I’ve been to so many different dah, dah, dah, and nothing’s ever worked.” And I’m thinking to myself, “And you just met the next doctor that’s probably not going to work [inaudible 00:27:39].” And I’ll listen, but nine times out of 10, it might be somebody I choose not to take or I start from the very beginning with all the, I can give you no guarantees, dah, dah, dah, kind of deal.

Dr. Ibrahim:

The thing about size, I do feel that there’s too many folks that, I don’t want to say members of our club, but I’ve seen too many other providers that offer the Priapus Shot®. And the biggest thing on their website is how we’re going to magically increase the size of your penis instantly. And I let patients know when they’re coming to see me, I go, “You’ll notice I don’t make any mention on my website about increase in size whatsoever.” I go, “We might see an increase in flaccid size. We both know that there can be an increase in both erection and flaccid sizes, but I never use that, is, “That’s why I’m glad you came to see me. I want to help you gain more size.” [crosstalk 00:28:46] If it happens, I tell him, “We’re both going to be excited, but that’s not how I’m going to measure your success. We’re going to the prostate surgery.”

The P-Shot® after Prostate Surgery

Dr. Ibrahim:

Absolutely. I was a big prostate cancer urologist, but that was my forte. And I didn’t do it at the time. But if I was dropped back where I was teaching prostatectomies, men would go home with a penile pump for no other reason, to continue to get more blood flow because they’ll stop having those nocturnal erections a lot of times because of the damage to the nerves. Even when the nerves are spared, it’s going to take some time for them to fully recover. And a lot of times they’ll never recover because as I was taught way back when, when we didn’t do many nerve sparing, that the nerves are part of the prosthetic capsule and nerve sparing is cancer sparing.

Dr. Ibrahim:

So, today, especially with the robot, many more men are left with their neurological function intact. My biggest question I ask them at the beginning is, how has it been since your surgery? And if it’s anything less than six months, I go, “Okay, well, what I’m going to do for you is not going to hurt anything, but you might want to wait and see how you are at six months because you might get all your recovery back.” But the question is, do you get any kind of blood flow when aroused? And if they’re like, “Yeah, but it’s just [inaudible 00:30:19]. It’s not hard enough.” I go, “Okay. All right, good. I can work with that.”

Dr. Ibrahim:

But if the answer is nothing, then I tell them, “Okay, well, I’m going to be able to help you. There’s no question.” And by that, I’m not telling them yet because they don’t want to hear about injections, but I’m thinking in my head, “All right, I’ve always got TriMix in my bag.” But if the [pitch knob 00:30:40] doesn’t work or depending on what other kinds of [inaudible 00:30:46] they might have going on, I might just say, “Let’s just help you out and get right down to the business. And let me show you how to do these injections.”


Yep. Okay. All right. Let’s see. My thing’s blowing up with questions here. I’m just going to look. Let’s see if Sarah’s microphone will work. She’s got three or four questions. If not, I can read the questions to you. Sarah, are you there? Okay. All right. Let me just read her questions. So do you have the patient pump the same day as the shot or have them wait until the next day?


Hey, [inaudible 00:31:25], can you hear me now?


Yeah. Go for it.


Great. So, one is, how much time-


Where are you Sarah? Just got a hell of a snow a little bit.


I’m in Denver. And Dr. Ibrahim and I were in a shockwave treatment or shockwave treatment together. I don’t know if you remember Dr. Ibrahim. Sat next to you. Anywho, my question was, when you do the P-Shots in the middle of your shockwave therapy, how much time after the P-Shot before resuming shockwave treatments. It seems like the protocol has changed over the years.

Dr. Ibrahim:

And I do remember that workshop. So, nice to hear from you again.


[inaudible 00:32:11].

Dr. Ibrahim:

So I heard a couple of different questions. One was, sounded like, when do we resume pumping after the P-Shot and then what was the one about … What did you say about the GAINSWave [inaudible 00:32:24]?


Do you have them take any time off after your first P-Shot prior to resuming your shockwave treatments?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Okay, good. I’m glad you asked that. I don’t. So if they’re set up for their acoustic wave every week and I do their acoustic wave treatment on the Wednesday that they’re coming in normally and I do their Priapus Shot® that same Wednesday that they’re scheduled to get both of them, the following Wednesday, a week later, they go ahead and they get their acoustic wave treatment. If it was two days earlier-


Okay. Thank you. [crosstalk 00:33:02] the function of the P-Shot to have that trauma, that soon after huh?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Well, typically because I’m doing the first of the Priapus Shots during the acoustic wave series of 56. That first one, I typically would do right in the middle of the series at number three or four. And then I don’t do the final one until after their last treatment.


Right. Okay. And do you do your shockwave treatment first and then the P-Shot after that on that third session?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Yes. I do the acoustic wave first with my rationale being that [inaudible 00:33:45] what trauma that we might be causing helps the Priapus Shot and its growth factors stay around the area and focus on the parts of the penis that we want to rehab.


Okay. Completely agree. In that same training that we went to in Florida for GAINSWave, at that time, they were saying, wait four to six weeks after that first P-Shot before resuming treatment. But, you don’t think that’s necessary before resuming shockwave treatment.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Correct. And I don’t have any literature to support what I’m saying. And I can’t imagine they’ve got any literature.


I don’t think they do [crosstalk 00:34:26].

Dr. Ibrahim:

I know that the results that I’ve had doing it the way that I described have been fantastic. And have I done hundreds of these doing the protocol that they showed us, I don’t know, it might’ve been just as good. But, I’m not going to mess around with what’s working for me. But, I’m an open mind. If somebody tells me that they have compared such durations and differences, I’m all ears.


Okay. And then regarding the second question about pumping, I [inaudible 00:35:01] Dr. Runels that you generally recommend, I think you would have them pump perhaps immediately after the P-Shot at the appointment and at that same GAINSWave treatment or training, they recommended differing pumping to the next day because of the potential of having some bleeding and that traumatizing the patient. What is your protocol, Dr. Ibrahim?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Okay. So when I learned it, when I was at Fairhope, we were pumping immediately afterwards. I’m doing a penile block on these guys now, so I don’t want them pumping until they’re not numb. Because, like we said, at the very beginning about the pump, one of its problems is the pump causing pain and bruising and issues. And if they’re totally numb, they don’t know what’s going on. I think, especially when I’ve done the acoustic wave prior to doing the Priapus Shot®, that there’s enough trauma now. And let’s just wait till the next day when they’re not numb to resume pumping.


Yeah. Interesting. I used to do the block and have completely for the last year, just continued that. I use a really good topical and the Pro-Knox and they do amazing. But, just throwing that in there.

Dr. Ibrahim:

In fact, I’d love for you to contact me and let me know the source of your topical, because as we all know, it’s not the lidocane or [inaudible 00:36:33] or benzocaine or whatever. It’s the base that makes the biggest difference in a lot of these pharmacies. That base is a closely guarded secret. I’ve got some great ones that work on the [inaudible 00:36:45] because I haven’t found a good one for the penis in your right. You might not have said it, but I’m thinking in my mind, “I’ve done thousands of penile blocks.” And the goal is to get near the nerve, but I’ve hit the nerve enough times to where I’ve caused some residual discomfort from doing the block.


I have too.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Yeah. Which-


But I actually learned the technique from the block from you from one of your videos. And yeah, I’ve gone through many derivations because I do aesthetics as well for topical numbing. And I’ve just within the last year found one that I feel like is a home run. So I’m happy to share that with you. And then my last question is, are you injecting any exosomes versus PRP in the penis?

Dr. Ibrahim:

I am. And that’s a topic that that Dr. Runels and I left off, especially, some of the agenda. I do.


Great. I do as well. So I’d love to chat with you offline about that.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Wait a minute, I will say this out loud. I am a huge fan. A huge fan.


So, Sarah, just so you get an idea of what we’re thinking. There are things like the exosomes and STEM cells and things that I’m most afraid to pronounce out loud. And it has to be thought about in terms of, of course the way Dr. Ibrahim does in terms of where you are and who’s the person and what’s the powers that be is saying, and is there an IRB and all that. And so it’s the kind of thing that I like to keep those conversations less broadcast so that people don’t get the wrong idea and get in trouble by not following the same kind of guidelines that George is following. So, I think the best way to find out his ideas about that is to show up in his class. But I appreciate your questions very much. I’ve got a long list. I’m going to jump to the next person, but thank you for jumping on the call. Okay. Did I lose you?


Nope. Thank you so much.

How to Vary the Injection of P-Shot® When Treating Peyronie’s Disease


All right. All right. So another, I think his mic isn’t working, but we’ve got another question here from Dr. Eric [Byman 00:39:17] who says that he would like to know how … And this is a frequent question. I’m glad you asked this Eric. How do you vary the way you’re injecting your PRP when you do the P-Shot and how you’re doing, I think you touched on briefly, how you’re doing the shockwave when you’re treating Peyronie’s or do you?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Okay. For me, yes. All right. If I was not treating a plaque specifically, I would deliver almost all the PRP along the … Yeah, I do between three to five max sticks on both sides depending on the endowment. And then a little bit in the glands. I think the glanular part of the Priapus Shot is more for sensitivity because obviously the glands does not play any role whatsoever in erections. It does get a little bit more [inaudible 00:40:20] a little bit bigger, but that’s not where the meat is. When it comes to Peyronie’s, I’m going to take maybe a third of the entire amount of PRP that I have. I’ll split what’s left after that third to do this half injections. And then I will directly inject the plaque two to three to four times, depending on its size, directly with the PRP.


Okay. Thank you. So we have another question that I’ve never had before. A lot of these questions … By the way, I’m putting into the chat box the address of someone, let’s see, who is … Dr. Peter Metropolis just gave us the address and phone number for a pharmacy. Thank you, Peter. For someone who has a cream that he’s found to be helpful doing the Priapus Shots. So you guys might want to try that one. The question is, someone got a TriMix … Let me just see if I can unmute the person who asked this, because this is complicated. You may have follow-up questions. Okay. Dr. Lydia Dennis, let me unmute you because this is one I’ve never heard before. Dr. Dennis, there you go. You should be able to speak if your mic is turned on. If not, I can read this.


Okay. I’ll just read the question. Six year old guy with erectile dysfunction, previously on TriMix. I’m not sure what that means. But, was he on it when he came to your office or he stopped when he came to the office, but he was previously got a P-Shot on January the seventh. And two weeks later, says the TriMix no longer works. The penile pain, no pain or bruising after the P-Shot still having spontaneous morning erections. I don’t know how to explain that. My first guess is that maybe he’s overusing the pump and he’s waking up with an erection, but his TriMix isn’t working. I don’t know. Can you think of a way to explain that one?

Dr. Ibrahim:

Okay. I pulled my TriMix out of my refrigerator and I know it was fresh. And I ask him how many units he’s doing at home. If it’s an inordinate amount, I might not start with that. But I’ll then inject it myself [crosstalk 00:43:03]. Because they say they inject and gosh knows, are they doing it right, where are they doing it, and has that TriMix been sitting out for how long, how old is it? Always, that’s part of another handout that we have, letting people know that TriMix begins to lose its power both with time and temperature. So you might’ve kept it cold but if it’s four months old, it’s not going to be nearly as potent as it was today. You opened the bottle the first time. If it lays out on the counter for three hours, same thing. It’s not going to be nearly as potent as when you pull it straight out of the refrigerator. So, before I believe that it’s not working, I’m going to try it myself. [inaudible 00:43:48]


All right. So, I’m not sure Dr. Dennis’ mic is not working. So, hopefully that’s helpful and seems to make sense to me. When someone tells me for example that PRP cause damage, it’s like saying you suffocated on oxygen because PRP causes tissue to become healthier. So it doesn’t mean it’s not happening, it just means there’s something else going on that has to be figured out. It’s not likely the PRP has actually damaged something.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Yeah. It’s like the people who tell you they’re allergic to Benadryl or epinephrin. Okay. Well, we all know what’s happening there. You’re getting sleepy. Benadryl or epinephrin, your heart’s racing, but they’re not allergic to it. If somebody is blaming the P-Shot, well, it’s also the person that was having problems to begin with, but now you get to be the crutch and he can blame you for it rather than himself for his inability. And I’ll tell the person, “I’m doing the best I can. I know where I’m putting things. I get to teach other physicians. I’ve been doing this as urologist for forever, but I’ll be glad to give you a list of folks that do a similar procedure that I do. And they may be able to help because I don’t know if I can.” Because at the end of the day, we all know you can’t help everybody, especially if they’re looking for a reason for something not to work.


So, I have enough left on your outline to keep us busy for many hours. I’m going to try to get through as much of it as it can. And again, I’m always grateful to pick your brain on the ratio of knowledge and experience to cordial and easygoing with you is out the roof than nobody else maybe that I’ve worked with. So I always enjoy picking your brain. All right. So next on our list is … But, if there’s something you feel like you want to jump in, go for it because I don’t want to structure it so much. You don’t have a chance to just run. We have experienced people on the call, but we also have quite a number that are new.


So if you have any quick tips, maybe we could jump to that now. With the COVID things going on, your ability to continue to make a living, it’s really interesting. I’ll get some people that are in the group that are just prospering like crazy, more than ever, truly. And then others that are dropping out. Literally, it breaks my heart going broke and closing their office. And it just breaks my heart because think about the irony of that; a doctor closing their office because people are getting sick. That’s something wrong when that happens, but it’s happening. And so help us talk to that person. How can you continue to do business and prosper, even though people were getting sick? What an ironic question, but help us out with that.

Dr. Ibrahim:

That’s great. And this should be brought up for folks who aren’t doing some of these things. Part one, when patients start to cancel an appointment or want to reschedule because they’re worried about COVID, staff, they have been very well trained by my office manager on, “Mrs. Jones, please, this is going to be one of the safest places you can be.” First of all, everybody in the office is used to washing their hands before they see anybody. Wearing masks and gloves is part of what we do day in and day out. That’s before COVID ever hit and we had to worry about PPE. We already had it all.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Number two, you’re not going to be in a waiting room with other folks. In fact, you won’t wait at all. And you’re going to pull up into the parking lot. You’re going to give us a phone call. And then one of my staff will check them in over the phone, make sure that we have a current payment, credit card, usually. They will actually even run the credit card for the anticipated, what the visit is going to be for telling them that there might be an adjustment depending on what we end up doing up there so that they’re not going to have to sit around. Their followup is going to be scheduled either before they’re ever seen, or once they go back to their car. They’re on the phone, again, with the MA. So the contact that they’re having with us face to face …

Dr. Ibrahim:

Because there was a time in North Carolina when I was limited to, I can’t remember if it was six minutes or something that I could be in the room at one time. And patients began to love it. They would walk in. They walk straight back to the room. They’d get on the table. I’d say hello to them. This was not for brand new patients. Brand new patients is a different story, but these are people who we’ve already had a relationship with. And we just get right down to business. And I’d apologize for not being able to spend more time with them, but the new rules made it. So I had a bit of time I could be in the room.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Now things are relaxed and we can spend a lot more time, but a lot of patients began to love it. So, we continue now to check our patients in and out before they ever get either up in the office or they come in, they’ve already been checked in and then they go back to their car and we finished the checkout without them sitting in a room, without other people hearing about their business. The privacy aspect’s been a lot better. So, we’ve done very well. We had two months. It was horrible and I was worried about who’s going to … I’d have to let go. And I’m happy to say nobody was let go. The new method has been a phenomenal forced change that we’ve had to do and it’s come over very well amongst our patients.


Thank you for that detailed explanation, because it really breaks my heart to see doctors going out of business because we have more sick people. And I’ve put up here something that makes sense, but I want people to know there have research to back up what makes sense. So here we have published. You can see this was in the January 1st issue of what you would expect. People who are stuck at home are getting depressed and there’s been multiple research papers out about that. They’re getting depressed, there’s more abuse, there’s more substance abuse and physical abuse and child abuse, but the people that are having sex are doing better.


And I’ll put this up here because, especially in the beginning of COVID, but it continues to this day, people are almost embarrassed about talking about the fact that we take care of sexual problems as if somehow that become unneeded because people are sick with a virus. It seems to me it’s more needed than ever. We need comfort. We need love when things are tough and we’re the people that help make that happen. So can you expandable, have you seen some of that or what’s your idea about … My point is nobody needs to make an excuse about going to work and talking about sex, even though people are dying.

Dr. Ibrahim:

You know what, I’d never would’ve thought to bring that up, but you’re absolutely right. Just to carry out that in, on the aesthetic side, now that everybody’s doing Zoom meetings and they’ve got 4k and high-def cameras looking at their face from two feet away, anything and everything above the nose, people who are doing that have never done it. Because the other is what you just said about the sex part, with so many families that have both spouses working, but now they’re both working from home and they found themselves in an environment where sex is okay at two o’clock in the afternoon, they want to do it. And a lot of couples coming in together. In fact, I’ve never had more couples at one time. Usually it’s one of the partners, almost always the female, that gets started and then the other one comes in after the fact. But I’m seeing more and more new patients enter as couples to optimize their sexual intimacy together because they’re spending so much more time together. And yeah, that is something that I would not have thought to bring up, but I see it a lot now.


So we only have seven minutes left. Thank you for hanging with us for the whole hour. I got two questions that have been sent to me. Well, first of all, this is something I know that you’ve had a lot of experience with surgically before there was ever an O-Shot. So talk to us about in seven minutes, your ideas about the O-Shot, where it comes into the treatment for stress and urgent continents. And then last, have you had any thoughts about the new magnet Emsella treatment?

Treating Stress Incontinence and How the O-Shot® Procedure Integrates with Mid-Urethral Slings

Dr. Ibrahim:

So let’s talk about the incontinence. First of all, you see the literature that talks about 51% of women over the age of, just making up, 40 something report incontinence. And whenever I give talks, I go, “That’s the biggest wrong number in the world.” If a woman has gone through menopause or she’s ever, let’s say 50, and she’s had one or more vaginal deliveries, they’re incontinent. But they’re all used to it. Their mother wear her pants when she caught the sneeze. Their best friend wears her pants when she’s jumping rope. And so, so many women don’t even complain about, “I have this today.” Healthy as hell, thin, fit, 50 year old woman, three vaginal deliveries. It’s on our form. I don’t care if you’re coming in for Botox. It’s one of the questions on the form. Do you leak when you cough, sneeze, laugh, job, et cetera, then in parentheses stress, urinary incontinence?

Dr. Ibrahim:

And she didn’t even think to mark it, but I looked at her history and her age and I just couldn’t conceive up. And sure enough, she says, “Oh yeah, whenever I do jump rope, which is like three to four times a week, I’m always leaking.” And I go, “Well, let’s talk about what we can do.” And so it’s far more common and I advise everybody to make sure it’s on your list of questions, because if you’re going to be part of your club and you’ve learned how to do the O-Shot, then I will address their incontinence at every single visit until they tell me either, I don’t want to hear you talk to me about my incontinence again, Dr. Ibrahim, or they go ahead and [crosstalk 00:54:34].

Dr. Ibrahim:

And [inaudible 00:54:34] is, is I have done enough slings, enough mesh, enough tax in my career. And [inaudible 00:54:42]. They were horrendous and they had brought with issues. If I had had the O-Shot when I was in residency, I would have done a third of the female vaginal incontinence procedures that I did as a resident. One-third. It would have knocked out probably at least half, if not two thirds, of the cases that I had done. Because so many women are completely dry after one or two O-Shots. Every one so far has been dramatically improved if not, parentheses, cured. And again, I thought of how long is that going to last? I don’t know. I don’t have that crystal ball. Some, they’ve never had to come back and some come back once a year and some in between. So-


The other surgeons in our group will tell me that even if the woman chooses to go straight to a sling, they’re usually still almost always grateful that they were offered a non-surgical solution first. Because there’s this urban feeling that surgeons want to cut, but actually surgeons want to get people well. And sometimes that means surgery, but there seems to be an appreciation for a surgeon that has something other than a scalpel in their bag. And then if they choose to go straight to the swing, they’re happy that they were offered something else. And so I’m glad to hear you supporting that idea. And you’ve seen it even work with urgent continence. I’ve heard that, but it’s interesting that you’ve seen it as well.

Dr. Ibrahim:

So when somebody comes in, they might stress incontinence stress, even though we’d give them the examples. And I find out that it’s urge. You’re itching to go. You’re back of the cold section of the grocery store, and you’re looking for the bathroom and, “I got to go, I got to go.” And you wait yourself before you can get there. That’s urge incontinence. I’ve had some women say, “Look, I’ve had a friend. She had urge incontinence. You told her ahead of time. Look, I can’t promise you anything for urge.” I go, “But it’s not going to hurt it. And if anything, it might make sex better.” And if it helps her incontinence, both of us are going to be thrilled to pieces and damned if it didn’t help her incontinence. And so I can give you the anatomic reasons why stress incontinence is held by the other shot, but I have no idea how urge it is. And I’m not talking about the incontinence. I’m talking about the urgency, the neurologic feeling in the head and the bladder that have to go. It helps with that. And I have no idea how come.


Yeah. I’ve got some, as I’m sure you do, some theories about that, but we’ll save that for the … I’m telling you guys, every time I’m in the room or on the phone with this man, I learn a lot. He’s innovative, but he knows the science as well as anybody on the planet. So if you’re looking for a hands-on class, I can’t tell you, you just need to go see him. So last thing and then we’ll close it down. What’s your ideas about the magnet that’s being used to help incontinence?

Dr. Ibrahim:

To be very quick and short about it, of course I download it and I do not own one.


Okay. All right. So guys, I think that we better shut it down. And lots of people are busy and I’m always honored. Everybody’s busy. So I’m honored that you made the call, honored that Dr. Ibrahim made time for us, and I’ll make sure this recording is posted somewhere soon. You should get an email automatically, but if you don’t just look forward on the membership site soon for the video and the transcript. Thank you for being on the call Dr. Ibrahim. I’m always grateful to you.

Dr. Ibrahim:

Thank you so much, Charles. I do appreciate your kind words and I appreciate your comments on the workshop.


Yes, sir. Bye-bye.

Dr. Ibrahim:


Dr. George Ibrahim

Dr. Ibrahim’s Next Workshop<—

Dr. Ibrahim is Western North Carolina’s only physician certified by the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine. He has been specifically trained in the use of bio-identical hormones, having passed both written and oral exams. A former Duke University Clinical Professor of Urology, Dr. Ibrahim’s experience with hormonal balancing goes back decades.

George Ibrahim, MD is a well known, board-certified urologist who has been professor at Duke University.

Dr. Ibrahim’s Next Workshop<—

Research showing “COVID-19 lockdown dramatically impacted on psychological, relational, and sexual health of the population. In this scenario, sexual activity played a protective effect, in both genders, on the quarantine-related plague of anxiety and mood disorders.”<–(it’s ok to treat sexual disorders during the pandemic–it’s needed) (click to read)<—

Penile rehabilitation research<–

More research about the O-Shot® procedure<–

More research about the P-Shot® procedure<–

More Workshops<---

Apply for online training for the O-Shot® procedure<–

Apply for online training for the P-Shot® procedure<–

Cellular Medicine Association


From Vampire to Orgasm & Priapus–How and why I invented the Vampire Facelift®, O-Shot®, & Priapus Shot® procedures

Southern Research Institute
Center for Wound Care and Hyperbaric Medicine
Springhill Medical Center
Vampire Facelift® research<–
Priapus Shot® (P-Shot®) research<–
Orgasm Shot® research (O-Shot®)<–
Treatment of erectile dysfunction in the obese type 2 diabetic ZDF rat with adipose tissue-derived stem cells

Apply for physician training<–

P-Long Study Application

Thank you very much for your interest in participating in the P-Long Study,
And in staying informed about future research.

Here’s where to apply to participate in the P-Long Study.

For updates about this and future research regarding male sexual function, If you have not yet subscribed to our “Men’s Sex Research” you may supply your information here…

Dr. George Ibrahim (urologist) discusses P-Shot® for Peyronie’s Disease & ED

Dr. George Ibrahim<–

Application to become a Priapus Shot® [P-Shot®] provider<–

Cellular Medicine Association<–


This sample of our weekly journal club is posted as an example of part of the benefits our joining our provider groups. We do these meetings weekly...every week and feature physicians and their amazing research from around the world.

Topics Discussed Include the Following…

*Documenting the Penis
*Documenting the Penis by text (in a private way)
*How long to wait after the O-Shot® before getting a Vaginal Laser treatment?
*Treating the Bell’s Palsy with the Vampire Facelift®
*Where to park your podcast

Video/Recording of CMA Journal Club, Pearl Exchange, & Marketing Tips


Documenting the Penis

Charles Runels: Welcome everybody. Looks like we have a great turnout today. Let’s start with this question just it’s about where to find the questionnaire for men. It’s a good reminder that we should be doing something to document an objective measure of what’s happening. Moving to the O-Shot® and the Priapus Shot®, so I’ll show you where to find it for both. When you log into the Priapus Shot® membership site, and you click on the how to do procedure button, and then you scroll down. There’s an erectile scale, so it’s objective measurement of erectile function. It’s commonly used by the urologist and there it is right there. Erectile dysfunction intensity scale.

Then when you open that, it gives you a scale of from one to five, for five questions. So the lowest you can get is one on every one– times five, the most you could get is 25, so that’s where you would download that. Now, if you don’t want to, well let me take this back.

Online, Text, Documenting the Penis

If you want to continue to survey them, old school way would be to do this the day you visit with them, and then on follow up visits, but if you wanted to have it done automatically, then you’d go back over here and we have, so you go back to the dashboard and then you click on patient survey.

We will administer that for you. I recommend you do both. Do something on paper the day you visit them, and do the procedure and then follow up, but then also all you have to do is put in their name and cell phone number, and then they’re surveyed in a HIPAA compliant way with some open ended questions, also you can see we have a drop down menu so we look to see which kit you used, and other things like are they on testosterone. If someone put something really strange in here, then we have a way I can use birthdays, and the day they saw you, and you could reconstruct it and contact them, but the good thing is I can give you your data. What your patients are doing, and this will help us design future studies.

Even though it’s not double-blind placebo, there’s a fair number of data points being collected, so we can publish this in a prospective survey kind of thing, and that same erectile dysfunction scale was part of this, so questions one through five questions where they’re graded one through five. That’s where you find it, on the how to do page, and then scroll to the bottom and you can download it. Then on the same thing for the female side, there’s female sexual distress and female sexual function index, which takes a few minutes. Female sexual distress is the quickest. Female sexual function index probably takes, if they’re thoughtful about it, five minutes or so, but we can administer those also by survey. Then give you that data. So that was a good question.

How long to wait after the O-Shot® before getting a Vaginal Laser treatment?

Let’s see. This was a good, oh, well I’ll come back to that. Let’s go ahead and do this question. How long does a patient need to wait after the O shot for getting a Mona Lisa vaginal laser treatment for vaginal atrophy? By the way, you guys, you can type into the question box if you want to contribute, you can just raise your hand and I’ll unmute your mic, or you can type into the question box if you have a question or a comment, and I’ll either read it or unmute you so you can talk. This is a great question. As part of the answer to this, someone asked me for a detailed video recording that they could show their patients after they had a procedure done.

The O-Shot® procedure, so I’ll show you where I put it and I’ll recommend that you guys do your version of it. I’ll show you where it lives. Right here. If you go to the O-Shot webpage, the main site, and then recent posts, I put a podcast blog right there. So you can just click on it there, and actually the transcription is done, I’ll have that posted by tomorrow morning, but I recommend you take my transcript, and read it, and do it your own video or your own podcast, and put it on your website, and modify it based on your observations and philosophies. You’ll see I go into what to expect whether you’re doing it for like necrosis, and I go into some of the ideas about using other methods like radio frequency, the Emsella with the electromagnetic contraction of the pelvic floor.

If you are interested in Emsella, send message to the company to get a discount for being a member of the O-Shot® provider group…

if you purchase, then let us know and we will put an icon by your name on the O-Shot® directory so that women know that you offer a combination therapy of the O-Shot® procedure combined with the Emsella treatment…
here’s where to let us know…

So back to this question, if you do the O-Shot® the day of the procedure, you could do the O-Shot® immediately after any sort of inner treatment, so you do vaginal laser, or radio frequency, and the same visit, same day, immediately afterwards you could use PRP. Same thing if you were an Olympic athlete, you’d use PRP to help recover the muscle function immediately afterwards. If you go to PubMed and just read about PRP, one time it was outlawed by the Olympic committee because it does seem to help recovery with muscle function, but then they decided to allow it.

You could make the argument that it may even help the day of using an Emsella or the electromagnetic treatment, but if you do the PRP first, then the energy’s going to denature the amino acid proteins, just like if you took insulin and shook it, or you cooked it, you denature the amino acid chain and uncode that chain so it no longer, it just becomes another protein. It no longer is a chemical messenger like the amino acid peptide or hormones like growth hormone and insulin are, which is of course why you cannot take them by mouth because the digestive system, as you guys know, breaks amino acids apart so now it just becomes like you ate a hamburger, so you can’t take insulin as a pill or growth hormone as a pill because it denatures or scrambles the message.

In the same way, if you did an O-Shot®, so the question is how long does a patient need to wait after the O-Shot® before you do the Mona Lisa, but what you can assume is whenever you do the Mona Lisa, you’re going to undo first of all the amino acid messenger chain, that are the small peptides, that are released from the platelets. Then second of all, of course the laser is going to cause damage, which is the intention of fractal sort of puncture wound as if it were doing a laser version of micro-needling. And then you have recovery or healing of that. So if you’re doing heat and you have pluripotent stem cells that have migrated there because of your plasma it appears to me that you would probably undo that as well, that growth.

I would say you would do the Mona Lisa whenever you thought the effects of the O-Shot had taken place. If you flip the order, you go Mona Lisa and O-Shot immediately afterwards on the first day, but if you do Mona Lisa first I would want to wait at least six weeks, preferably eight weeks so that you have most of the benefit of the O-Shot before you did the laser. If you look at the wound care studies that Sclafani did with PRP most of the effects were there at eight weeks with full effect at 12 weeks post treatment with PRP. I would want to give it eight weeks or else I’m attenuating the results of the O-Shot.

Using the Vampire Facelift® help Bell’s Palsy

Okay so, we covered this one with the short vagina last meeting, let’s see if anybody has, nobody has a question yet. There was a really interesting question someone had about, yeah. So Catherine Stone (check her out here) is one of our [amazing] providers in New Zealand and she also keeps an office in London, one of our teachers, she teaches a beautiful class there in New Zealand.

Dr. Catherine Stone

She teaches along with Dr. Kirshni Appanna.

Dr. Kirshni Appanna

She says, if you, well she talks about Botox [as a treatment for Bell’s Palsy], but she comes up to Bell’s Palsy, “I treat a lot of residual Bell Palsy and facial asymmetry patients this way using Botox. Once their Palsy is established how about PRP for Bell’s Palsy? Would you only use it the first six months or you think is long term?”

Where to inject, so this is a great question. One of us needs to publish this because so far three people have told me that they saw benefit years after the Bell’s Palsy.

I’ll pull this up just so you can see. The only reference I saw to it in the literature was someone who put this out where they used mononuclear cells and platelet plasma which there’s two variables–after 26 YEARS of being plagued with this condition.

Read about treating Bell’s Palsy of 26 years duration with PRP<–

But, we’ve had three different people tell me, and I’ve actually seen this as well, a Bell’s Palsy improved years afterwards. One of the people works in my office as a matter of fact had, not a Bell’s Palsy but facial surgery that left her with numbness that’d been done over ten years before she came to work for me.

I did the Vampire Facelift® for a cosmetic result and then anecdotally she noticed that the sensation had returned to her face. So, I don’t know when the time limit is for this to happen, but it appears to be that it can happen after, not just the acute phase, but months or years after the Bell’s Palsy has occurred. If you actually just look at the research, what’s been published, there’s a fair number of studies showing plate rich plasma helping regenerate nerve tissue. I think it’s because we know it’s affect on attenuating all the immune response, it’d be nice to get to these people immediately when the Bell’s Palsy occurs and see what would happen and someone needs to do that study.

There’s so much research that needs to be done based on our observations but there’s no downside and a huge upside so I would say try it and of course it’s in the distribution of the facial nerve, I would just, but there’s no downside of just putting it everywhere. I would just put subdermally everywhere. We actually used to do this eight years ago when I first started doing the Vampire and using PRP cosmetically. I would use more of it, I’d basically tried to fill every part of the face subdermally but most people found that, or some people found it a little much so I became more selective and strategic about where I place it.

But I think in the case where you’re trying to regenerate nerve, I would just consider it, putting it everywhere. Or, if you want to be more specific you put it in the distribution of the facial nerve. Okay, let’s see, we didn’t have as many questions this time, i think that pretty much covered the questions that showed up on the website. See if anybody else has any questions. We may shut this down early. The, let’s see I don’t see any other questions.

I’d like to cover when we do these journal clubs, I like to cover research that we’ve done and hopefully somebody will build on that and something about marketing. As far as marketing goes this time, I think that there was one question that came up about building out a link to sell the Altar or whatever you might want to sell, creating a link that goes on your website. I actually covered that a few workshops or journal clubs ago, it might help if I just show you how easy it is to find things that are actually on one of our pages. If you go, I’ll go in and I’ll show you. There’s a search box and if you just type that, whatever it is you’re looking for, so let’s say that we’re on this page, and by the way our Altar shipped this week so hopefully you guys are seeing that.

Where to park your podcast<–

Get to the page. Yeah. There, so whenever you’re here, you just put in the search box whatever it is you’re looking for so it’ll pull it up on any of the posts. We have many pages on these websites. Let’s see if there’s any other questions. Not many questions this week so we may just shut this down. Okay so I think that’s it. My big marketing tip, well big but I don’t know about that, but the marketing tip I have for you this time is record an aftercare, either podcast or video. For podcast I use You can record a podcast or a video for the actor here. What to expect before your procedures, you can put that on your websites because a lot of people look at that before they have a procedure done and you’ll find that people come to you and have the procedure done because they saw your aftercare instructions. So tonight was a quick one, I don’t see any other questions so we’ll just shut this down. You guys have a wonderful week.

For workshop that includes marketing including podcasting (if you’ve attended this before, then it’s free to return)<–


Next Workshops with Live Models<---

Relevant Links

Apply to join each of our provider groups<—

Treatment of Bell’s Palsy with PRP (why the Vampire Facelift® could help this condition after 26 YEARS)<–
Nerve regeneration with PRP<–
What to expect after the O-Shot® [Orgasm Shot®] procedure<–

Doing your own podcast<–

Vampire Facial® Research

Cellular Medicine Association



Topics Discussed Include the Following…

*Can you pump too much? Do you really need a pressure gauge?
*Where to buy a penis pumps wholesale & how to adjust price
*Do you have to use the pump after the Priapus Shot® procedure?
*Other side effects of the pump.
*Dr. Delucia & The number one reason doctors do not get free press?
*Here’s one of my favorite articles about penis pumps–showing that the use of one increases transcutaneous oxygen concentration
*Briars, Woods Walking & Medical Innovation
*How to measure web traffic. One of my secret tools.
*A way to get a free appearance on your local TV station
*Dr. Michael Goodman talks about innovation in medicine & funding research

Video/Recording of CMA Journal Club, Pearl Exchange, & Marketing Tips


Penis Pump Research

Next Workshops with Live Models<---

Charles Runels: Let’s start by talking about penis pumps. I received two pretty interesting questions in the past week about penis pumps. One of them had to do with … Oh, by the way, we’re also wanting to speak a little bit about amnion research, and an article that came out today giving us some free press about the O-Shot, and about how to use that press, to leverage it for your own practice.

First about the penis pump. This is a sampling of some of the research that’s out there about penis pumps (click), and some of this research answers questions that were posed to me. One sent me a photograph of a penis where they did a Priapus Shot, this story, guy has an erectile dysfunction score of about 15 or so. So he has some function, but it’s not like what it used to be.

So he comes in for a Priapus Shot® [procedure]. After the shot, the pump was applied. Then, when they took the pump off, the patient had some looked like vesicles on the glands’ penis, filled with clear fluid, three of them, and some increased bruising, more than what would be expected from just the injection. The question was, what might’ve gone wrong?

My first question was, what pressure was put on the pump? This provider had … By the way, there was no permanent damage, so I’ll just go ahead and tell you the ending of the story is good. But the provider, rather than follow our protocol, which is that you apply a negative pressure of 7-10, provider had found somewhere on the internet the recommendation of a pressure of minus 15. The cause of that, that’s what created those vesicles and the increased bruising.

Can you pump too much? Do you really need a pressure gauge?

Along those lines, I wanted to show you one article that shows that over inflation, as you might expect, there’s one of many. There’s case reports out there of people doing stupid things like hooking their penis up to the home vac system, and it just gets ripped off. Obviously, we’re not going to do anything like that in our office. But this is just a simple case where a 66 year old gentleman used a vacuum erection device, but he bought one without a pressure gauge.

I think that’s really dangerous to have people using something that you cannot measure. They get overzealous, maybe there’s loss of sensation already from diabetes or injury. They can’t tell what they’re doing. If you do a Priapus Shot®, by definition, you’ve probably put some topical anesthetic or maybe did a block, and so they don’t have the pain as a feedback.

I think it’s really dangerous, in my opinion, to either use or recommend that someone use a pump without knowing what they’re doing. Now, if you go back and you look at the research, which this is representative, but there’s others I’ll mention shortly. You’ll find that it is, if it’s done the proper way, this has been a therapy that’s been around since 1974 or so, and it’s known to be a safe and effective treatment. Provided that you use it intelligently, just like almost everything we do in medicine, there’s a sweet spot in less is less effective, and more is damaging.

Same with this, and if you’ll go back to the old protocols that people were using, they were going sometimes up to a pressure of 15. It starts to sound like people comparing notes with lifting weights or something. Where is it better to do high intensity heavy weights for short repetitions or small weights with high repetitions? It sounds a little bit like people comparing notes at the gym.

I think there’s still room for thinking about this, but there’s couple of papers in the Journal of Sexual Medicine that you can go look at. The patent, which I think was very tightly edited by Irwin Goldstein, where it showed that using a vacuum pump increases the effectiveness of Viagra and Cialis. Men taking those therapeutic medications get a better result if they use a pump, intelligently, which makes sense. You’re just basically stretching out a water balloon to make it easier to blow up, but if you look at the old protocols involved, sometimes going to pressure 15, but most people think now, if you’ll look at the protocols being used in penial rehabilitation therapy where you also find a lot of this pump research.

Rehabilitating the penis post prostate surgery. The usual protocol’s a negative 7-10, and some guys, they seem to be really sensitive, and that’ll complain of pain at three or four, that’s okay. Just something that increases the erection equivalent or maybe slightly more than what would be experienced with a normal erection using the vacuum pump. That seems to be the place to where people see some improvement.

There was also this article, and another, looking at … Yes, this one. This is the journal of sex … Wrong one, I’m sorry, excuse me. This one.

Yes, so this was The British Journal of Urology, nice paper where they took people who had Peyronie’s disease scheduled for research, 31 people, and over a course of 12 weeks they had them use a pump twice a day. Half of them canceled their surgery, because just the mechanical makes sense. You have the scar tissue, stretch it out every day, a couple times a day, it might straighten it out, and it worked. When I talked to Ronald Virag who published the most recent, I think, landmark study about using PRP for Peyronie’s, which you can find if you go here, you go to our website,

By the way, I think this relates very nicely with the work that Andrew Goldstein did for us, with lichen sclerosus, because it all relates to the PRP down regulating the autoimmune response. If you go to, let’s see. If you just go /peyronies, which I recommend you give this website to your patients, because I put on here everything that I could find in the literature that had been shown in a really nice study to help with Peyronie’s. One of which was the Priapus Shot, which we can now say now.

If you go to just click on the references, so give them that, so they will include all of those things in their protocol. For example, there’s a higher incidence with smoking. They’re sort of undoing the things we do if they don’t quit smoking, or at least try to do that. Not this one, this one.

Yes. Wait, this is not the Ronald Virag, it’s another nice study, but this isn’t the Ronald Virag study. Definitive study is … Yes, this one. This one. This is the one that I love.

Dr. Virag, who I think is amazing, he’s a legend, because he was the first guy to think of doing the TriMix injections, vascular surgeon turned ED expert, because of that idea. Here in this study, he showed that using PRP works better with fewer side effects than Xiapex, really nice research including some objective data using imaging. I’m kind of going in a circle here, but if you talk with him, which I have, shared the podium with him a couple times. If you talk with him, he’ll say in practice he combines PRP with the pump.

Circling back to what the original topic was, we have a pump study showing that mechanical traction helps Peyronie’s disease. Then we have this really nice study showing that PRP helps Peyronie’s disease, and when you talk with Dr. Virag, he’ll tell you that in practice he combines the two. Of course, when you’re doing a study, you just want one variable, but in practice, that combination is really nice, which is what we’re promoting when people come to us. Back to the pumps, you need to know what you’re doing, in my opinion.

Where to buy a penis pumps wholesale & how to adjust price

I think you use a pump that has a pressure of somewhere between … that you could measure, and then you have them put that pressure somewhere between 7 and 10. Now, I’ll show you where some people have trouble finding this, for some reason, so I’ll show you where I have a link. Where you can buy it wholesale, penis pumps, and I’ll tell you how some of our people are using this to create, not only a better outcome, but more profit, which is really nice when you can help people tremendously, and also the combination of doing more creates more profit. Let me get to this and show you.

If you go, sort of coming in the back way, so let me have one more click before I show you what you’ll see. When you login to the Priapus Shot membership sight, and then when you land, you’ll be on the dashboard, which is the next page I’ll show you. Here. Then when you click on the how to do the procedure part and scroll down, unless it’s somehow fallen off the page, which somehow computers do that sometimes, I’m not sure why, but if you scroll down, there should be a clicking link here somewhere where you can buy that. That’s it.

That is a wholesale, place to buy wholesale pumps. There’s a hand pump, an electric pump. This pump, not saying that you should have to use this, but I like this pump, because it’s a heavy duty metal device, and it has a pressure gauge on it. But, what some people are doing to increase both profit and outcome, is ordering this electric pump, which has a retail value of around $500, give or take.

If you go, this is the wholesale sight of this website, if you go to the retail sight, this has a perceived value of around $500. So some are buying this at wholesale, giving it to the patient, and charging, instead of our usual 18 or $1,900 for the Priapus Shot, charging them $2,200, but you’re giving them a device that’s worth $500. The overall perception of value, and the real delivery of value is actually more. This works well, because you can just set this.

One guy who came to me who had some nice results, he said he just set this and read the Wall Street Journal for an hour a day. I know that’s more than most people wanna devote to a pump, but the point is that if you set it at a nice low … and he used the pressure of seven and had really great results before he ever got his Priapus Shot. I feel like I need to talk more about this, because this is something that sort of freaks people out, and they’re not familiar with it. The other thing that I would tell you is that most people, if you get somewhere around 2-2.2, this is the diameter of the cylinder.

It’s going to fit most people, and seldom will people need the other tube, so maybe you buy one of those to have it on hand, one of each of these, but if you keep the tube to the 2.2 on hand, most people will fit one of those. You kind of see what you’re dealing with, and if it’s the average sized penis, you give them one of those, and give them this. Most of us are giving them a pump as part of the procedure, and just figuring it into the price. Anyway, that’s all there for you.

I kind of cut that deal for you guys, and if you wanna see the retail side of that, this guy Dr. Kaplan, Joel Kaplan out in San Diego. I went and checked him out, I like to meet people personally and see them. It’s interesting, if you go to his “office” it’s a huge warehouse literally stacked up 30 feet high with penis pumps, and about five people manning the computers. He’s making so much money with these pumps, because he delivers a nice product at a good price, but this is the patient side of it, which I like them being able to get to, so I don’t become the pump service repairman.

Whatever pump you give them, I like it to be something they can get … if something breaks on it, they can just order another cylinder without calling your nurse and turning her into the pump mechanic. If they want to get a different size something, because they grew, which happens sometimes, or whatever, it’s all on here for them to measure and do all that. This is the company from which you’re getting the wholesale version of this, it also gives them a way to see that you’re actually giving them something. I said $500, it’s 495 for this system that you’re giving them, or depending on what you’re attaching to it.

Somewhere between 4, 500 bucks, roughly, that you’re giving them, along with your procedure. All right, so that’s one problem, and you have research that shows the pump is helpful mechanically for Peyronie’s. If you go back to PubMed and you look at this, because the other question I get is, “Do we have to do the pump?” I actually had three questions this week about pumps.

Do you have to use the pump after the Priapus Shot® procedure?

One was, “Do we have to do the pump?” No, you don’t really even have to do the shot, right? They could just watch game shows and not have sex, but if you want to get the best effect of this thing, if it’s Peyronie’s, we have good science showing that it could be helpful as a standalone. If you have erectile dysfunction, we have studies showing that it could be helpful.

If it’s done intelligently. If you have prostate surgery, we have good studies showing it’s helpful, and if you want to read that, you just go to PubMed, and put in penile … That’s not PubMed, let me get back to PubMed. You put in “penile rehabilitation,” and a lot of science about how to recover post prostate surgery, and you’ll see that almost all of these protocols involve some combination of Cialis, low dose daily with a pump used daily.

Now, let’s just stop and quit thinking science for just a minute and just think commonsense. I’m a big fan of Richard Feynman, because he had two Nobel Prizes in physics, but he wasn’t into the limelight. He would actually use a fake name when he was going to lecture at universities, because he only wanted the mathematicians in the room. He didn’t want anybody showing up just because he had a Nobel Prize in physics, but he was a big fan of commonsense.

You do the math, but then you stop looking at the math, and you think what I’m looking at, is it commonsense? If you think about what we’re doing, as far as just mechanically allowing a balloon to be easier to blow up, then it makes commonsense that it would be helpful. Now, the other thing, can we take the commonsense thing one more step? There was a time, not so long ago, that I can actually remember, being 58, I can remember as early teens, 12, 13 year old, trying to figure out how to make muscles grow.

There were still people, at that time, who thought that lifting weights was somehow not good for you. If you go all the way back to the ’50s, it was actually … athletes were discouraged from lifting weights. But you had physical therapy post stroke. Physical therapy post stroke, after an injury, trying to recover strength.

It wasn’t until the 1980s, when I was in medical school, that the first article came out that actually said, “Yes, anabolic steroids actually make you stronger.” If you go back before that, they were saying that, “Well, maybe it’s just water weight, they’re not really that much stronger.” But the athletes all knew that was wrong, and I was working as a trainer in the gym, and we’re looking at people lifting the whole side of the gym, so I knew that was not right. Commonsense said it was not right.

Now, back to penises. If we have something that seems to be working for rehabilitating the penis, so if you use that analogy with weight training, why wait until the injury? Is what I’m saying. You don’t wait ’til you have stroke to go get rehabbed with your muscles, you lift weights to try to maintain strength so you don’t fall and break your hip, or you go walking, or some sort of weight resistance, so you don’t wind up like astronauts, where your bones break for standing up, which happens to the elderly.

Back to this. I think that the old will become new. Penis pumps were a thing before we had Viagra, I think they’re becoming a thing again, as we start to rethink how physical therapies might help penial help. Okay, that’s me just kind of trying to think like one of my heroes, Richard Feynman, with commonsense, without looking at the literature. But go read the literature, think about it.

The questions I got were, this week, three of them, “Do you need the pump?” The answer is, you don’t really need it, but you’ll probably get a better results if you use it intelligently. The one exception of that is probably if you have loss of sensation, just anecdotally, what I’ve noticed is those guys, if their only complain is loss of sensation, you’re maybe better off without using the pump. I figured this out, or noticed it in multiple patients.

Penis Pump Research (click)<--

That also makes sense if you’re trying to grow fragile nerve endings, perhaps the mechanical stretching may not be so helpful. That’s the exception to that things we’re using the pump for. The other question was about … Should you use it? My answer is probably yes.

Can you over use it? Do you need to get something with an actual gauge on it? Yes, I think you do, and this guy claims he’s got something that’s FDA, a device that’s been evaluated by the FDA, to where you actually have an accurate pump on it. You don’t want to get blamed for somebody else’s impotence, which is what happens if they over pump, consistently.

Other side effects of the pump

The other side effects are that their skin can become darker, so you just tell them that, and it will reverse if they stop pumping, and they can get some edema if pump for a long time, even if they don’t over pump on the pressure. Should you use it? Yes, for everything, maybe except for loss of sensation. Get something with a gauge on it, and I’ve shown you where to get it wholesale from our website.

Now you have a protocol that you can follow. There’s also a nice little video here that kind of talks you through it. Normally what I do is, I’ll do the shot, I’ll get the pump going, most people are afraid of them. I de-stigmatize that thing by calling it yoga for your penis, and that seems to, I don’t know.

Maybe one of you guys should do that penis yoga, but I think that seems to kind of calm them down a little bit, and I recommend that they not try to hide it. Just take the thing out and pump it up when you’re watching TV with your sweetheart and try not to make it into some big giant secret. The worst thing about porn is people keep it secret from their lover, and then it takes on this mystical thing that turns women into porn widows, where their husband’s off jacking off to porn. Where it loses power and usefulness, I think, when it becomes more shared.

Here’s one of my favorite articles about penis pumps–showing that the use of one increases transcutaneous oxygen concentration (click)<–

Okay, so I went off and made lots of circles there, but that’s my ideas about the pump. Now, let’s see, what else did I promise you guys? Maybe I should open up … Anybody want to comment about that? That’s on the call, I know there’s some people on here that have done really nice work and had lots of success.

If you just click the button, I’ll unmute you where you can talk to the group, I have a really nice group tonight, and you probably want to comment more about the pump thing. Okay. The other thing I promise we talk about is just to show you guys where some of the amnion research lives. Oh, you know what?

Free marketing for the O-Shot® [Orgasm Shot®] procedure

Let’s take a break from the research for a second and show you some free research thanks to one of our many amazing people, Carolyn Delucia, who is on the call. I’m gonna unmute you Carolyn, ’cause we have two crazy good articles. Before I unmute her, let me just show you, this is a gift from Carolyn, who’s created a really nice relationship with this lady who’s been writing about our stuff, I think, very intelligently. Here’s one that came out March the 11th, about the O-Shot, and here’s one that came out, check this out, April the 2nd about vaginal rejuvenation.

Wait, let me click on this thing. I went down too far. It talks about many of the things that we do, so this is a … I think an intelligent way and a balanced way that doesn’t over promise things. So, this is another nice thing to show your people, and so, how do you show people?

But before I get to going here, maybe Carolyn can talk a little bit about not just the procedures … I just un-muted you, Carolyn, but maybe just kind of some words of wisdom because she’s been teaching for us. She’s managed to get some amazing press. Part of it is because she’s in a nice town, but part of it is that she hustles and she knows how to talk with the press. Okay, are you there, Carolyn?

Carolyn Delucia: Hi everybody. Kind of shocking to be unmuted here but that’s okay. We love you, Charles. When it comes to getting press, I’ve been very fortunate to have gotten by accident noticed by one of the … Daily Elite, I think, was the first one, and once that happened, I was invited to give opinions on many articles. I think that the point there is if they ask you, say yes, and answer their questions quickly, and they are kind enough to alert you when they actually publish something that you have said, and it gives you, without any merit, truly an expert status, which is kind of comical, but we do these procedures day in and day out, helping our patients, and never really expecting anyone to notice, but if they do, it’s a way of letting everybody else know that this is available, and it’s been my soapbox for quite a number of years now.

Charles Runels: So, can I bring up something because … I won’t interrupt you for too long, but I want you to address a couple of times as you talk.

Carolyn Delucia: I’m done.

What’s the number one reason doctors do not get free press?

Charles Runels: So, one of them is this. There is an unspoken rule among physicians that is a really scary rule, and I’m going to speak it out loud. Here’s the unspoken rule: You don’t really have a right to be in the spotlight until you’ve published for many, many years, and maybe you have a professorship or something somewhere, and if you jump around, and you get a lot of attention before that happens, maybe you might be breaking a rule. Now, there’s no one who comes in and arrests you for that, but there’s uncomfortableness about that, and do you think I’m making that up, or what’s your experience, and how do you deal with that?

Carolyn Delucia: I think that the only reason why, without tons of publications, that I’m able to speak on this topic is that everybody else is afraid to, and I feel that women have got to know that these treatments are available even if it’s before all the literature comes to fruition, and I think that keeping it secret and not speaking of it and not being … I think for OBGYNs, mainly, our issue is that it’s not yet approved or officially condoned by the American College of OBGYN. So, with that, it’s making everybody a little bit uncomfortable to try it, and to speak of it, but we’re seeing such amazing results, and internationally, the literature is there. Whether I’m publishing it or not, I can certainly refer to plenty of literature defending these procedures. Whether they’re completed in the US already or not, they exist, and the results are in the great promise that we see in our patients.

Charles Runels: So, let me-

Carolyn Delucia: So, I don’t care.

Briars, Woods Walking & Medical Innovation

Charles Runels: So, I want to point out something, and let you elaborate this, and I want to pull in Dr. Goodman because he’s on the call, and as you know, he did some of this research, and was in it before we were in it, and I think the ways …

I always imagined myself when I was six. I used to go bird hunting with my dad, and we would go … Down in Alabama, the forest is so thick, and there’s a lot of … I don’t know what you call them up north, but we just call them briars down here, and those briars will just literally rip your skin, and I remember my dad walking ahead of me, and stepping on things, and knocking the briars out of the way so I would still be cut enough to where I’d feel like I went to the forest, but he sort of blazes the path for me, and so I feel like we, the people in this call, are blazing that path, but I think Dr. Goodman was kind of the daddy up there that took a lot of the heat before we got involved.

But before I pull him onto the call, I want to say that there was something key to you’re saying more in tone than in words, but you hinted at it in words. You believe in this, and you feel like women need to hear it, and I think that part of what makes what we’re doing important, maybe, to somebody is that you know this is at least working for some people, and there is some research and a growing body of research. Some of the anchor stuff actually done by Dr. Goodman, who I’m going to hopefully speak up in a second. I’ve got him muted for now, but they need to know, and because we’ve seen families and lives change because of it, we’re sort of willing to take some hits, and we do take hits, right?

Carolyn Delucia: Yes.

Charles Runels: We do all take hits, and we bleed. Metaphorically, we bleed, and the people on this call, I think, have a right to say, “At this point, we’re still in the early innovator stage, trying to get the research.” By the way, I was on the call today with Johnny Peet, and I think we’re going to very soon blast off with placebo study with incontinence. Andrew Goldstein is proceeding. I just kind of revived our recruitment for our double blind placebo shot for the O-Shot for orgasm, and our group is contributing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to helping make some of this happen. I haven’t paid Dr. Peet anything yet, and he thinks he can do that one fairly economically, but the point is we’ve got some funds. Our group is financing a lot of this because there’s no pharmacy to kick in, and we’re risking taking the heat.

So, I think the thing that was in there that you, being humble, didn’t emphasize much, but the biggest thing to be talked about in the press is, one, getting a little attention, but then having the courage to actually do it. So, my hat’s off to you. I think part of the reason Italians ruled the world twice is Italian women so I mean, you’ve got the courage [inaudible 00:30:38] to do the thing, right? So, I’m doing to pull in Dr. Goodman and see what he has to say because I’m …

Now, one other thing about these words. I know Dr. Goodman, for every reason, has a right to the rejuvenation. I think that Dr. Matlock actually may have a trade mark on this rejuvenation word, and we just launched a website called Vaginal Reconstruction. It’s going to be just for our surgeons in the group that do the O-Shot, and it’s going to be … It’s in the preliminary stages, but I have plans to drive a lot of traffic so people aren’t confused about what’s surgery and what’s rejuvenation.

One of my big favorite authors is Thomas Moore, who wrote Care of the Soul, and he has a book about writing where he says [In Thomas Moore on Writing], “Everybody sort of has their own personal dictionary.” So, my grandmother always called a car “fliver.” I don’t know where that word came from. We all have different meanings for word, but the thing here is that when people have a lot of time and energy and money invested into a word, it’s an important thing, and for example, when I started using the word “facelift” associated with an injection procedure, I caught a lot of criticism from the surgeons who wanted facelift to mean just a facial surgery, and I understand that. I mean, I have a crazy respect for facial plastic surgeons. That is not an easy thing to put a face back together after you go through a windshield, and I would never pretend to do that, but I sort of took that word and made it mean something else, and then I thought anything lifting the skin away from the skull should mean facelift, and so there is some emotion tied around this word, I think, for a good reason.

So, I’m going to unmute Dr. Goodman, and just recognize him as someone who took the heat before I even knew this was a ring to get into, and he was getting punched up and doing some research. So, I’m going to unmute Dr. Goodman, and he will have-

Charles Runels: Hey, Dr. Goodman. Are you there? Michael? Hello? Dr. Goodman?

Okay, so are you there? Okay, so we’ll see. Maybe he’s not able … Maybe his microphone’s not working right now, but anyway, so anything else you want to say, Carolyn?

Carolyn Delucia: I think you’ve said it all, Charles. I really do. I think that the most important thing is that women are aware that these procedures are available, and that is not a cure nor a promise, but it may be a help, and I think that the main point is getting the word out, and that’s been my journey.

Charles Runels: Yeah. So, thank you for speaking up, and thanks for being courageous. Now let me see if I … If you don’t mind, Carolyn, can I just leave you unmuted, but let me see if I can give you guys a couple of tips on what to do with this because now this is here. It’s talking about lasers. It’s talking about surgery, and it’s talking about, of course, the O-Shot so it’s all here, and even though I take heat, the good thing I’ve learned to do, although not as well as I would like, is to realize that even bad press can at least bring attention to it, and if you’re okay with bleeding a little bit, and it brings attention even if you catch criticism, it’s okay to let that go.

So, what do you do, I guess, when you have this? How do you take this, and turn it into patients coming into your individual office? There’s a system I have. First of all, you want to look at Alexa, and see if it’s worth noticing. So, can you see that pop-out screen, Carolyn, that shows-

How to measure web traffic (one of my secret tools)

Carolyn Delucia: No.

Charles Runels: Okay, all right. So, you guys can’t see it. Okay, so I’ll just show you. If you go to … I guess the first thing that I like to do is to make sure someone’s listening. If I look at a website, whether it’s good or bad, and it turns out it’s someone’s little blog that nobody’s reading, it doesn’t really matter if I post something to it. I’m not sure this allows … I don’t think it does, but most of the webpages where something like this happens, it allows you to comment. This one allows you to make a question, answer a question, but usually, there’s a place to comment, and why take the time to comment if it’s a blog that no one’s reading?

So, I use You go to, and then you can just copy the address from where you were just at, and put it in here, and it will give you the traffic. So, here’s the traffic on this website, and it’s ranked 27000th in the US. That’s really very high. That’s very, very high so that’s worth noticing. So, that tells me that if there was a place to make a blog post here, that people are going to read it, and then that gives me a free ad perpetually after that. Is there … I’m going to show you an example if you Google “vampire breast lift” because I’ll give you an example of another article that Carolyn did where a lot of us got some press out of it. So, breast lift Cosmo is the one that really allowed us to make a lot of comments. Power to Cosmo for Cosmo …

So, if I told you, you could get an ad on the Cosmo website for free, that would be worth huge amounts of money because to have a display ad on Cosmo would cost you many thousands of dollars, but when Carolyn got this article about the breast lift, at the time, I don’t know if it’s still here, but at the time … Let’s see if they’re letting you do it. Well, it went away, but usually, they let you … There was a place to make a post.

The point I’m getting at, if there’s a place to post a comment, you do it, and you do it in such a way that it’s not an ad. You just make an intelligent comment on the article, and then you will have basically a display ad on that website, but before you do that, the first test is to go to Alexa, and see if people actually visit that blog. So, Cosmo, if you do an Alexa thing, it’s not showing you, but it comes out at 1000, and 27000 is this one. If you do say, for example, Botox Cosmetic, it’s about 130000 to 150000 in the US. Our O-Shot is usually about 50000 so we’re not this much traffic, but we’re much better … Anyway, there’s a lot of traffic so it’s a respectable site, and you would make a comment if that’s possible.

*Next step is that you then take that link for it, and you just write an email that goes very simply something like this, and this is what you send to your patients, “Hello, I thought you might be interested in this procedure that helps urinary incontinence. Here’s a nice article about it. If you or someone you love,” always put you or someone love, “has this problem, and is interested, please give us a call or shoot us an email,” …

*and then you put a link to the page. It’s that simple. You don’t have to become Thoreau. You just write a very simple article like that, and post it, and then you can take that same thing, and I’ll show you how you can put it on Facebook very easily.

You just copy the address, and then if you want, you can just click the Facebook link and it puts it there, but if you want to very quickly make something more individualized, you just go to your page, and watch what Facebook has the … See, I’ve already done this, but I wanted to make a more intelligent comment about it, if you put the link in there, it pulls up the page, and then you can just make a comment about it into that box, and you’re not seeing the pop-up box, but it pulls up a pop-up box, and I’ll just show you an example, and then when you post it, now you can see. I just typed in an example right there, but I could’ve put something like, “Come see us about this procedure,” or whatever suits your personality, but all I did was in this, right here, I posted the HTML address into that space, and then it pulls up the picture, but it allows me to type something else there so that’s how you do it. I better take this away. That’s how you do it to Facebook or Instagram or wherever.

So, for me, it’s an email that’s two or three lines as if I were writing it to my mother or my girlfriend or sister or something, and then with a link to the thing with a plea for them to either call me, or let someone they love know about it, and they will think about that. It gives them the chance to help their sister or their best friend or whatever, and they will forward it to them. Okay, and now you’re using the national press to promote your practice.

A way to get a free appearance on your local TV station

*One last thing, and this one’s a big one if you have the courage to do it. Then what you do is you should have in your pocket, in your cell phone, the phone number of the health reporter for the news channel in your town, and then you call them, and say, for example, when this hit Cosmo, if you would’ve called your local channel and said, “Hey, there’s a thing in Cosmo about the vampire breast lift,” and you’ll notice they said this was the most looked at thing on Cosmo that month, but think about it. What could possibly pull more traffic than the word “vampire” and “breast” and Kim Kardashian during the Halloween season? I don’t know what other perfect lining up of things you would have to do to be able to generate traffic.

So, all of those happen. You got crazy amounts of traffic, and so, at that same day, and this is your step-by-step thing so I’m about to give you the next step. First, it’s a two line email to your people linked to the thing, asking them to call you or to forward it to someone they love that may have the problem. Second, you post to Facebook or whatever social media you’re doing. Third, you call the local news reporter and you say, “Hey, that thing that just happened or that’s on Cosmo, I’m doing that,” because, if you notice, the news reports on the news …

It’s really funny. You watch CNN, they’re talking about what the Fox News people are saying. Fox News is talking about what CNN and NBC is saying, and you’re watching the people on CNN, one reporter interviewing another. When did that get to be news when two reporters interview each other? But you see it all the time, but the point of that is that the news is hard up for news. It’s hard to think of something new every day, especially in your local town where there’s just not as many people to make things happen. So, when you give them something that is timed to the national press, that’s the point of all this, they will usually gobble it up, and they will call you for more things if you have the courage to do it.

All right, so, anything else you could say about that, Carolyn, and then I want to get back to the science a little bit.

Carolyn Delucia: No, not at all. I think that’s fantastic. Great advice.

Dr. Michael Goodman talks about innovation in medicine

Charles Runels: So, still have you unmuted, Michael, if you could hear me. I’m not sure if you’re there or not, but I’d love for you to jump in here about some of this research that we’ve talked about. Anyway-

Michael Goodman: Charles?

Charles Runels: Yes? Hello?

Michael Goodman: Can you hear me?

Charles Runels: Yeah! There you are! Beautiful!

So, back to this article because I don’t know if you heard me because I couldn’t hear you, but I’ve been bragging on you because I know that you must’ve taken a lot of heat back in the day. Talk to us some because I know I’ve heard Andrew Goldstein talk about that first paper you put out about how some of the cosmetic procedures made physical sex better. Talk to me some about the … And you’re too humble to talk about to talk about your courage, but at least some of the conflict you had to deal with, and give us a little sage advice because you’re the guy who was taking the briars and who created the path.

Michael Goodman: I heard you earlier, actually. I was in the garden sitting, my spring lettuce-

Charles Runels: You’re making me hungry.

Michael Goodman: Yeah, I had my headset on. For some reason, I didn’t connect so I came inside, and I’m on the-

Charles Runels: Thank you.

Michael Goodman: So, I can hear you now, and thanks for all the comments earlier. As far as early on, the journals and organized medicine really don’t like to things that happen outside of the university, and happen outside of officialdom. So, way, way back when [Camden John 00:44:58] and Harry Rich and several others and myself started doing advanced operative laparoscopy, and we’re dealing with ectopics in the late 70s, and doing hysterectomies and ovarian cystectomies and so forth in the early 1980s, and we tried to publish our first series back in ’84, I think, it was near ’84, none of the journals would have anything of it. In fact, the Green Journal called us cowboys, and basically wouldn’t hear of what we were doing.

We had the audacity of operating at a conference through a scope, and removing ovaries through the scope, and Harry Rich and I doing hysterectomies through the scope, all of which is just sort of standard practice today, and it was the same thing when plastic surgeons started to do breast augmentations for cosmetic reasons, and it’s exactly the same thing today, and it’s interesting. There is a decent amount of evidence based research in the Aesthetic Surgery Journal and in Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery and in the great journal, the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and then certainly in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, there’s tier one evidence about changes in sexuality and in body image in women undergoing vaginal aesthetics.

It’s evidence-based that yes, there’s improvements in body image, and yes, there’s improvement in sexual satisfaction, and it’s all there in the literature, but ACOG really won’t hear of it, and when they quote the literature, they don’t quote any of these articles, so it’s pretty selective. That’s, you know, Charles, you run into that, and a lot of us who have done things, who have been in community medicine rather than in academic medicine. I have an academic appointment, but I’m a community physician.

Those of us that are community physicians, our voices aren’t heard as much. The interesting thing, when you look at results from procedures or results from treatments, everything has to be evidence-based. I’m definitely someone who believes in evidence-based medicine, but I’ve come to realize that anecdotal information is not chopped liver. The reality is that certain things will never, unfortunately, get the stamp of approval of evidence-based because there’s no money for funding.

That’s where the Cellular Medical Association comes in, and where it’s been, where you’ve been so helpful in that, is providing some funding money. When you take a look at things like treatment of PMS, you know, the official treatment of PMS is either risperidone, which is an anti-anxiety medication, or SSRI antidepressants. Those are the only things evidence-based that work for PMS. Why? Because there’s no studies that talk about caffeine avoidance, and talk about exercise, and talk about progesterone therapy.

There’s no studies that talk about progesterone therapy because nobody’s going to pay for them. They’re not patentable, and that’s what it sort of ends up being. If you have something that’s patentable, you can get money for research and you can prove whatever you want to prove. So much of the stuff in the literature is not comparing one treatment with another, but it’s just evaluating that singular treatment.

I mean, I’ll quit now while I’m ahead rather than use up all the air time, but I think what you’re doing as far … What we’re all contributing in as far as doing studies about the effect of the O-Shot®, and these treatments that no one will put money into because things aren’t patentable. You can’t patent the use of platelet rich plasma in Gräfenberg’s area and in the clitoris, and so there are not going to be studies unless someone like you or someone else takes the plan and says, “No, we’ve got to, let’s put some science into this.”

There’s always battles to be fought, and unfortunately, medicine is going into such a place where it’s sort of run by insurance companies and doctors have very little say and end up being employees, and it’s really hard to spend time with women and understand what their goals are, understand what’s bothering them, understand what their goals are, and try to meet those goals. One other thing, Charles, you still there?

Charles Runels: Yeah, and don’t feel restrained with time. You may not realize it, but you know, your thoughts are very encouraging to us as we just got through speaking. Carolyn’s been … I hope you guys know each other. I think you do. You know Carolyn Delucia, right? You guys know each other?

Michael: I don’t know if we do. Carolyn, do we know each other? I don’t know.

Carolyn Delucia: I don’t think we’ve ever met face to face. I don’t think so, actually. We’ve been at a lot of conferences together but never actually met.

Charles Runels: I’m glad you guys are meeting at least this way, because it does take … It’s scary sometimes, to be doing what we do, but yet we do it because we know that some of our women will be helped profoundly by it, and we try to do it intelligently so that we … We’re doing it in such a way there’s minimal harm always, of course, first do no harm. But it’s scary, and Carolyn has been hauled in and taken some blows, and out there. So, it’s good for us to hear, back in 1984 when I was still in college, that you were out blazing trails and yet you survived it, and you’re smarter and tougher because of it, so it’s good to see, and it’s very encouraging to me and I think probably to the others.

Carolyn Delucia: Absolutely.

Charles Runels: Of course, it’s not me doing it. There’s nothing I could be doing. I’ve become mostly a facilitator of conversation and a note taker and basically a pipe for the money to flow through to the research and the marketing and the lawyering. Anyway, I don’t really take credit for any of it, but just being maybe an admirer of people like you and [Bill Say 00:51:56] and all those guys who were out there taking the hits when I was still wiping my snotty nose.

Michael: [inaudible 00:52:04] a major role [inaudible 00:52:06] that we’ve taken with Andrew Goldstein, and Andrew and I have been friends for a long time. There’s no way he would have been interested in this and taking his ability to write up a good [inaudible 00:52:23] and get things published. That wouldn’t have happened without your facilitation. What I was trying to search for before was operative gymnasts, that’s what we called them in an editorial in The Green Journal, operative gymnasts, because-

Charles Runels: Operative gymnasts, like people who do flips on the balance beam?

Michael: Operative gymnasts; back in those days, laparoscopy was used for diagnosis only and tubal ligation, period. The fact other things were being done through the scope was heresy, but a lot of things start that way. You know, we were talking about the term vaginal rejuvenation.

Charles Runels: Yes, talk about that.

Michael: Yeah, I go way back with that term. The term initially, as you noted, the term initially was put forth by David Matlock, and I don’t know how many on this call know David. I’ve known him personally for about 15 years, and Davis is the penultimate marketer. I mean, no, maybe not the penultimate. You may be at this point, but maybe back in the day, you know, David has an M.D. and an MBA, a masters of business administration, and this was back when docs were not supposed to market at all. It was just sort of bad form to speak about your own practice and to market.

David had the audacity to try to patent the term laser vaginal rejuvenation. He was unable to patent it. I think he was unable to trademark it also for various reasons, but that term, vaginal rejuvenation, was, when David was talking about it, had nothing to do with machines, had nothing to do with radiofrequency, had nothing to do with laser. It was doing a surgical vaginal tightening operation. It was a modified, it was pretty much what we’re doing today with some modifications. It was a modification of a posterior colporrhaphy by adding in a levatorplasty, adding in the bulking of the scar tissue underneath the vulvar vestibule and perineum and distal vagina.

Where the laser came in, and that was his kick, where the laser came in was he was using a touch laser fiber as a surgical tool. Now, laser vaginal rejuvenation has nothing to do with the fractional CO2 lasers or erbium lasers that are used today. That’s not what laser vaginal rejuvenation is. It’s use of a touch laser fiber as a cutting tool. You can use a scalpel, you can use a scissors. I use a radiofrequency needle, same difference, it was use of a laser as a cutting tool for a surgical procedure.

That was there, and I remember John Miklos and I had an open discussion at one of the vaginal aesthetics meetings many years ago, where he was beginning to use the word vaginal rejuvenation. At that time, I spoke up against that saying, “That’s a can of worms.” For example, I’ve talked about this before, if you have a 65-year-old woman and she’s maybe 12, 13 years post-menopause and she hasn’t been on hormone therapy. She’s a widow, and her poor vagina has become very atrophied, she barely can put her little finger in there, and she’s met someone and she wants to have sex, and you work with her with vaginal estrogens, and you work with her with dilators, and over time, you get her vagina back so she can have sex, you’ve done a vaginal rejuvenation.

[inaudible 00:56:31] with the word vaginal rejuvenation is that it’s become a marketing term, and no one knows what the hell it means. If you ask 10 people what vaginal rejuvenation is, you’ll get 10 answers and unfortunately, patients feel that vaginal rejuvenation is going to cure their ills, whatever they are, whether they’re sexual ills, whether they need tightening, whatever it is. Vaginal rejuvenation is such a nonspecific term, and I still … Because it’s so nonspecific. I mean, what does it mean to you, Carolyn? What does it mean to you, Charles? What does it mean to everybody?

It’s not specific. Does it mean surgery? Does it mean levatorplasty and a full perineoplasty with elevation of the perineal body? That’s very different than using DHEA suppositories or estrogen in the vagina for your rejuvenation, and that’s very different from using, from resurfacing tissue. You resurface the face, you can see those changes. You’ve gotten rid of acne pits, and you’ve gotten rid of blemishes and so forth.

What does resurfacing of the vagina with laser mean? What does it do? What is resurfacing of the vaginal mucosa with radiofrequency? What does that mean? How often? We do it [inaudible 00:57:54] times, a month apart. Where did that come from? Why shouldn’t it be more? Why do we just do it two? How often do we do it? What kind of results do you get? Unfortunately, I’m seeing patient after patient after patient, well, just two patients after patient, I’ve seen several patients that have put out several thousand bucks and say, “You know, I felt a little different for a few months. Maybe there was something there, and it really didn’t do much.”

They put out a couple thousand dollars for vaginal resurfacing that really didn’t suit their needs. That said, I’m talking to doctors who say, “You know, my patients love it. I’m doing diVa,or I’m doing ThermiVa or I’m doing one of the other Vas, and the patients seem to be happy, and the greatest thing is they keep coming back and the money keeps flowing in.” But, are we really helping patients? I think sometimes we probably are, but the term is so nonspecific that we really have no idea what we’re doing, and it’s very hard to get any even anecdotal, even a compilation of anecdotal results, because one person’s rejuvenation is not another’s.

Charles Runels: I have a suggestion about what might, what I think might be evolving, and I have a lot of respect of course for you and the other guys like Dr. Matlock and Dr. Bill Seay and those guys that blazed the trail. But I think what I’m seeing is that you’re exactly right, rejuvenation has become more like, instead of the specific thing that it was intended to be, it’s become more of a, as you said, almost meaningless umbrella that can mean whatever is being done.

The reason I have this pulled up, I have a suggestion based on data. I like to look, and this, I’m giving away one of my secret weapons here. I’m a big believer in, how do people think about words? That word Vampire Facelift was not haphazard. I had the procedure, but I thought about the name for it for about a week of studying numbers to learn about words. I’m giving you one of my secret weapons, it’s called Wordtracker. You go, you log in to Wordtracker. It costs you a little bit, but you log in and you can put in a word, and you can see how many times people are using it.

I have a suggestion based on this. If you look at vaginal rejuvenation, it’s been used about 33,000 times in the past month, in the United States, of people looking for something. Now, these numbers talk about competition, so for example this is the number of Websites where it’s in the title and it’s in the text, and there’s a back link coming back to it, so just the word vaginal rejuvenation.

Now, notice this number, 33,000 in the past month, and then here’s some related ones. Here’s, and I’m telling you, this is worth gold what I’m showing you guys, now if you put in vaginal reconstruction, I don’t think there’s anybody that can make this into something other than a surgery. I don’t think anybody’s going to imagine I’m going to reconstruct, although maybe on a cellular level, I think … Not maybe, I think we are on a cellular level reconstructing things when we use platelet rich plasma and when we do energy therapies. But, I don’t think anyone’s going to ever evolve into thinking reconstruction is anything other than changing the mechanics and the surgical procedure, and it’s a pretty amazing vein of gold.

Now what I mean by vein of gold is this. In the early days, when Bill Clinton was elected president, there were only 33,000 Websites on the planet. If you made a Website that had to do with anything that a lot of people were looking for, you were the sole source of a lot of people looking for that thing, and they would be dropping dimes in your pocket or coming to your door, whatever it was you wanted them to do.

Now, there’s a Website for almost everything, and there’s very few veins of gold left out there where not many people are talking about something that a lot of people are looking for. This is one of the tools I use to look for those veins of gold. If you look at vaginal reconstruction, it’s not 33,000, but it’s still over 5,000 people, and there’s only two Websites with that in the key word, and one of them is ours, Then, these numbers are crazy good, because the higher the number the more competition, and this number is only 3.12.

If you look at this last one we were looking at, at vaginal … If you remember, if you go back to vaginal rejuvenation, I’m giving you marketing advice here, but maybe not just marketing, but ways to educate our patients. Rejuvenation, and so if you look at this one, that same KEI number is almost 100. The other one is only three, and that means that there’s a whole lot more people trying to capture this amount of volume.

Even if the volume is less but still significant, if there’s not many people catching it, you’re going to get a lot of traffic. I have given as a gift, which costs me I won’t say how much, but it had a noticeable number of zeros behind it, and I bought that domain using our funds from the O-Shot® to create a Website just for the surgeons. Now, there’s always a selfish reason in everything, so if you go to, this now belongs to us.

I’ve just put something as a placeholder until we develop it, so I got a little something from Red, and something from Michael, and a textbook, and another textbook, and a little bit from Carolyn up there in New York. But, my rule is going to be only surgeons who do the O-Shot® can be on this Website, so it also feeds the O-Shot® side of people who don’t do surgery. But, it’s a way to capture that really low KEI number so there’s the significant numbers of people who are looking for vaginal reconstruction get funneled to the excellent surgeons in our group.

So, that’s what we have going, and what I’m suggesting is that you can decide yourself what vaginal rejuvenation means, but I don’t think anyone’s going to ever get confused about what vaginal reconstruction means, and that if you start using that in your posts, if you’re a surgeon, I’m going to make that, if I’m able, into a word that starts to dwarf the 33,000 that’s used for vaginal rejuvenation, or at least approach that same number. That is my intention to make that happen, so I’m kind of showing my cards to this group because this is a group that’s all friends and in the same thing. We’ve gone over an hour, so I think I’ll probably shut it down here. Hopefully that was useful to you guys.

The last thing on my list that I promised was to show you where it lives, the research that has to do with the Amnion. I’m not going to talk about it much, because I’ve already gone over the hour, which I don’t like to do. But there’s a link, you know what? I’ll just put it in the link under the recording from this thing. But we have, on the cellular medicine site, a really nice list of the research that has to do with Amnion. I’m interested what happens with you guys as you start to maybe use that as a combination with your PRP and your hard to treat cases.

I better shut this down since we’re over an hour. Thank you very much, Carolyn, and thank you very much, Michael. I don’t know if you realize it, but it’s a huge encouragement to us to hear about how you blazed a trail and continue to do so. You guys have a good week, thank you.

Carolyn Delucia: Thank you, thank you.

Charles Runels: Goodbye.

Both Dr. Delucia & Dr. Goodman offer hands-on workshops and can be found on the following directory…

Cellular Medicine Association


Cell Doctor News. February 2018



PRP and Sex

You may find helpful a recording of a 16-minute lecture I gave to the International Society of Cosmetogynecology this past month. I lifted a few clips from the transcript and put them below.

Hopefully, the ideas there will trigger ideas for you or motivate you to proceed with needed … CONTINUE READING


Owning Tylenol® and Saying ‘Acetamenophen’

On your webpages, if you use the words “PRP Facelift” or “PRP Vagina Shot” and you do not use the words “Vampire Facelift®” or “O-Shot®”, then patients have no way to distinguish you from the person down the street who is charging half the price you charge, but doing inferior medicine, spinning yellow tops from the lab instead of using kits that are approved by the FDA for preparing … CONTINUE READING


Sylvia Sylvestri’s Best Marketing Pearl

This month’s marketing tip comes from Sylvia Silvestri RN … AKA Beverly Hills RN®.

Sylvia did an on-site training in Lenexa, Kansas in September of 2017 that could be in-structive for us all. Not only did she provide all of the training in the vampire procedures, botox and … CONTINUE READING

© 2018 The Newsletter Pro. All rights reserved.


PRP for Improved Sexual Function. International Society of Cosmetogynecology. Las Vegas 2018

International Society for Cosmetogynecology<–

Cellular Medicine Association<–


Dr. Marco Pelosi III: Our next speaker is probably best described as the Michael Jordan of platelet rich plasma, Dr. Charles Runels from Alabama, that pioneered the O-Shot® [Orgasm Shot®], the Vampire [Face]lift®, the P-Shot® [Priapus Shot®], and he’s taken all the abuse and he’s given the world some very, very useful procedures for everyone. He’s going to talk about the studies he did and the studies done in platelet rich plasma in regards to sexual function. Dr. Runels, it’s a pleasure to have you here.

Dr. Runels: Thank you for having me.

I’m going to go through a whirlwind look at research that’s been done where people have used PRP to help with sex. Much of the research has been done by the people in our group, and I’ve described many of them in this room who have done this research. It’s a for-profit organization, but we pay for research, we pay for education, we pay for marketing for our providers. Just to echo what you just heard, sex is much more than about just having fun. Rainer Maria Rilke said it’s just so correlated to the creative experience that it’s affecting how we do our work, how you do your presentation, and how – of course – relationships and families.

I want to echo that sentiment, and remind us that back in 1980, if you look in ‘Urology’ – this was ‘Urology’ 1980 – the most common cause for erectile dysfunction was thought to be 85% psychogenic. Here’s a quote from ‘Urology’ where urologists were encouraged to become counselors, because most of erectile dysfunction was thought to be psychogenic. Of course, I’m echoing the penis stuff because if you take a penis and shrink it and unzip it, that becomes a clitoris. I’m thinking most of the research will eventually apply to that. Certainly, our attitude is applying because we’re back in the … We’re not, I’m preaching to the choir, but many of our colleagues are back in the 1980’s and saying the main thing we have for sexuality for women is counseling.

My thinking that perhaps, as you guys do, some of the pathology that applies to the penis may apply to the clitoris, and maybe some of these women are suffering from actual genital histopathology, not just psychogenic problems. We have this one FDA approved drug now for female sexual dysfunction that’s a psych drug, flibanserin. It’s a useful drug, but obviously, we need much more and maybe we should think in terms of systems, like we do for the rest of the body.

Platelet Rich Plasma.

Obviously, this is not a new idea. This is from, this month, over 9,000 papers indexed in PubMed about platelet rich plasma. Our orthopedic colleagues, our dentist, our facial plastic surgeons have worked with this, and all we have to do is take their ideas and then hopefully people in this room will extend what I’m about to show you and just take those ideas and adapt them to the genital space. Here’s some of the growth factors we know about. There are many more. They have these effects. These are good things for the genitalia. Down-regulating autoimmune response, proliferation of fibroblasts, new angiogenesis, the adipocytes enlarge and multiply – think labia majora, collagen production, neurogenesis and maybe some glandular function.

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There’s never, in all those 9,000 papers, I still cannot find one serious side effect. No granulomas, no serious infection. PRP is what your body makes to heal when you do your surgeries and help prevent infection. Obviously, there are always certain things that can happen, bruising and such, but if you have a serious life-threatening complication from PRP, you will have the first recorded in all of that 9,000 plus papers. That’s a nice thing.

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We have commercially available methods for preparing it, within 5 or 10 minutes of the bedside, and the devices are FDA approved. So you guys don’t get confused, obviously the FDA does not approve your procedures. That’s a doctor business. They don’t approve blood that belongs to you, just like your spit and your saliva and your skin. They tried, at one time, to control eggs and the gynecologists said, “Hell no.” So they don’t control eggs and they don’t control blood, but you should use an FDA approved device if you do this [approved for preparation of PRP to go back into the body].

Autoimmune Disease

Here’s some of the ideas about down-regulating autoimmune response. We have split-scalp studies showing that PRP helps alopecia areata better than triamcinolone. More hair growth that comes in thicker. Here’s rat studies looking at rheumatoid arthritis. What do we have in the genital space? We have lichens sclerosus. We did some before and after pictures where you use stem cells mixed with PRP, and before and after pictures show improvement. Of course, that’s two variables because you have stem cells and you have the PRP.

We took the same idea and just used PRP. Andrew Goldstein worked with me on this, and we had two blinded dermatopathologists. The protocol was biopsy, PRP, wait six weeks later, another PRP injection, and then six weeks after that, another biopsy. Two blinded dermatopathologists out of George Washington University did not know the before or the after. We showed statistical improvement in both the histology and symptomatology. Here’s our histology. You can see obviously, that’s the same magnification and we’re showing decreased hyperkeratosis. That’s obviously healthier tissue. A layperson could tell that’s better. Of course if you look at the gross pictures, lady on the left as you guys know, she has pain wearing her blue jeans. The lady on the right is back to making love to her husband. They’ve invited me into their close Facebook groups and I saw a post a few months ago. Quote says, “I was sitting next to my husband, whom I love, last night. I was afraid to hold his hand because I was afraid he would become aroused and I’m bleeding and hurting today.” That’s what you guys are helping.

We published that in ‘Lower Genital Tract Disease’. We extended it because it worked. We published this past January in the journal of the American Academy of Dermatology. You have some science to go do this now.

One of our providers, Kathleen Posey, who’s a gynecologist out of New Orleans, took this idea and then she said, “Let’s do some dissection in the office”, and she presented this in Argentina, published it in the same journal ‘Lower Genital Tract Disease’. Here’s one of her patients, where you can introduce [inaudible 00:06:44]. It had been 12 years since she had had sexual intercourse, penis and vagina intercourse, with her loving husband … 12 years. She was being followed by a dermatologist on high dose clobetasol. Kathleen dissected it out in the office and then injected PRP … 8 weeks later, she’s having comfortable sex with her husband. She’s now 3 years out. She’s had to be treated with PRP, not repeat surgery … PRP now, 2 other times a year apart to maintain that result. She now has a series of 60 or so patients that she’s now going to publish with similar results, where she’s dissecting out – as you guys know how to do – treating the [inaudible 00:07:27], but then following that with PRP injections to help the healing and decease the autoimmune response.

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That same doctor, Casabona, repeated his study with lichen sclerosus in men [BXO], and showed with just PRP alone … This study of 45 men with repeat treatments … It is cumulative, 2 to 10 treatments, the same thing. All of them stopped their steroids. None of them started back. Only one went on to have circumcision.


Peyronie’s disease, another autoimmune disease … This came out this month out of Wake Forest, where they took men and they followed their results with Peyronie’s disease. Not only did their Peyronie’s improve statistically, but they also improved their erectile dysfunction by 5 on that scale of 5 to 25 that the urologists use. For some reason, thankfully, they threw in one woman just for good measure, and showed that it helped her incontinence. They just tucked that in as an aftermath.

Ronald Virag, as you guys know as the legendary vascular surgeon who was first to present the idea of intracavernosal injections for erectile dysfunction, out of Paris. His big thing now is PRP for Peyronie’s. He just published a study where he showed that this is comparing PRP with Xiapex, which is a $50,000 series of injections, FDA approved version of collagenase. He showed that PRP works better with few side effects. There’s a risk of about 1 in 30, that actually go from a bent pencil to a fractured pencil and a limp noodle. You don’t see that with PRP. You see the side effect is the erectile function improves. He showed the same thing, actually, in his studies that erectile dysfunction improves by an average of about 7 on that 5 to 25 point scale.

Wound Healing/Scar Resolution

Let’s think about the [inaudible 00:09:29] literature. Look at this, there’s so much of this out there. This is looking at post-operative adhesions, lots of studies looking at scarring with microneedling and PRP. This is a split-face study comparing PRP with microneedling verus PRP … Excuse me, microneedling with saline or Vitamin C serum and split-faced studies in PRP wins. Dr. Sclafani did some studies in the cosmetic space looking at increased collagen production and fibroblast activity, and never a neoplasia documented. People worry about that. This is not indiscriminate blindness blind growth. You don’t worry about carcinogenesis when you do surgery and it’s the same PRP that’s causing healing. There’s actually some helpful immune processes that go on, that you could argue actually might help prevent cancer. I’m not going to make that argument but it might need to be made one day.

If you look further, here’s a wound healing study looking at reepithelialized exposed bone and tendon of the foot and ankle. When I took that and applied, this is a hypertrophic scar that was a year old from cortisone, and then using PRP and Juvederm or HA filler, this is a few days later, a month later, and that’s a year later. Now, take that and think, “How could I use that in the genitourinary space?” Doing that anecdotally, we have many of the members of our group are seeing help with episiotomy scars or dyspareunia, pelvic foreplay instead of injecting that pelvic floor tenderness with triamcinolone. Physiatrist for the past ten years has been using PRP, your sports medicine doctors. Now, when you palpate it, consider injecting with PRP instead. Dyspareunia from mesh and that unknown dyspareunia, we’re seeing this is where we need you guys to help extend the research. The science is there that it should help and it seems to be helping. Not 100%, but about 80% in people with dyspareunia.

Mesh Pain

Here is a look at a gentleman who did … He took the mesh out and then he patched the hole with a gel form of PRP and showed benefit. We’re finding anecdotally – no one’s done this study yet, here’s another one for you to pick up … I’m giving you low hanging fruit. We’re seeing anecdotally that if you inject in the distribution of the pudendal nerve, which seems to be inflamed in some women with mesh pain, that their pain will frequently go from 9 out of 10 down to 1 or 2 out of 10, without even taking the mesh out. Just another place where we need some research done.

Interstitial Cystitis

Here, we have rat studies looking at inflammation. Let’s think about this one. Here’s a rat study where they modeled cystitis and we are seeing in chronic interstitial cystitis without even infiltrating the bladder, just infiltrating in the periurethral space, some of our women are getting better. I’ve had two separate urologists call me and say, “Charles, I can’t believe it. I was doing this and expecting not this to happen. I have these patients now who have had chronic interstitial cystitis pain for years, and it’s gone.” Not 1005 but finding out who’s going to respond and who’s not and why, there’s a lot of variables that need to be thought about that you guys will hopefully do the research.

Penis Growth

Here’s a study that came out in the ‘Journal of Sexual Medicine’, where a guy took … the [inaudible 00:12:51] men who have an erection of 3 inches or less and then he treated them with PRP, combined with a pump, and showed that if you repeated it every time you did it, it grew by about 7 millimeters. I’ve always thought if I could give you a guarantee half an inch to an inch with anything, I’d get my picture on a postage stamp. I don’t have that yet, but I can tell you that we’re seeing about 60% of the time we do this procedure, men will see some sort of growth.

If you look at the neovascular space, there was a study out of Southern California that was published in the ‘Journal of Sexual Medicine’ where they transferred adipocyte stem cells to the penis of diabetic rats. They showed new endothelial cell growth and increased nitric oxide activity in the dorsal nerve. Would that be helpful in the clitoris? Probably, but the interesting thing is the adipocyte-derived stem cells were attacked and they died. The postulate was the improvement was from the growth factors.

Penile Rehabilitation and Erectile Dysfunction

I have seen what [inaudible 00:13:52] have seen in that when you inject this in the penis, erectile function goes up on the average of about 5 to 7 per injection. Think about nerve repair. We have rat studies modeling prostrate surgery, showing that the nerves improved with PRP and so we have, again, another clear place where we need studies if you add this now to the usual protocol for rehabilitating the penis post-prostate surgery … would you see benefit? We have seen that in some of our patients who are a year or two out who failed the rehabilitation part of that. Would that help your patients who have, say, numbness and decreased function from riding their bikes too much, or trauma? I don’t know, but it’s worth thinking about and publishing research about.

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In thinking about where to put this, where we do our O-Shot, when we do PRP to the anterior vaginal wall, we’re putting it as distal from the bladder as possible. We found that it works better. We’re essentially making a liquid sling. Think infiltrating and getting ready to put in the mesh. That’s what we’re doing. Very simple, only we’re using a material that has never caused a granuloma ever. Doing that, frequently our patients will have their incontinence go away that day from the actual liquid and as it’s replaced with new tissue, it never recurs. Usually, you’ll have to repeat the procedure at a year or two out depending on the etiology. Sometimes it lasts longer.

The interesting idea is what might be happening with those [inaudible 00:15:21]. They become more active, and does that help with sexual function? The other place we put it is in the actual corpus cavernosum of the clitoris. We use [inaudible 00:15:29] ultrasound visualization and see it flow down into the body of the clitoris by the pubic ramus and the wave form goes to what you see in a flaccid penis to what you see in an erect penis.

Improved Orgasm & Libido in Women

That’s my time, almost done. Just 30 more seconds. Here’s a pilot study we did where we showed that in women with female sexual distress, that it dropped by an average of 10 and female sexual function went up by 5 when you do what I just showed you. Here’s a study that Dr. Neto, who may be here, published where he looked at incontinence and sexual function down in Brazil and showed that 94% of the people loved it. The question here is how would you combine it with your energy source? It works great in the face if you do laser and follow it with PRP … better results, faster healing. Is it going to … We need people to help us work out the algorithms. Not everybody has laxity, but when you have something, when do you use which treatment and when do you combine it with PRP? We need those answers, because I don’t have them yet. This is possible helps.

I am done. Thank you very much for having me. I put all these references at that website, if you want to go download them. Thank you. You guys have a wonderful conference.

Dr. Marco Pelosi III: Thank you Charles. Beautiful

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Post SSRI syndrome, testosterone replacement in women, O-Shot® for decreased orgasm, hair loss

The following is a video and transcript of the weekly “Round Table Journal Club” of the Cellular Medicine Association.  


Charles Runels: We’ll start with some research that I think is worth paying attention to and then we’ll answer what questions might have appeared in the past week or so and then a quick marketing tip about how to use our poster. So that’s what I have planned for today but as always, we’ll take any questions that you guys have on the call.

If you’re not a subscriber to the Journal of Sexual Medicine, oh, by the way, we also have some really crazy good press that came out this month on the current Men’s Health magazine.

The one that is on the stands now. It’s the issue that has Mark Wahlberg on the cover. So it’s in every Wal-Mart, every bookstore right now and we have an article in there. It’s titled, “New Year,” excuse my French but that’s the title of it. “New Year, New Dick,” that’s the name of the title and the guy talks about our priapus shot.

As often happens, he doesn’t get the legal part right and he spells Priapus incorrectly, but he puts shot with a lower case “s” and leaves off the registered mark (®) so there really is some pretty sloppy journalism going on (since a little research shows that Priapus Shot® is intellectual property intended to mean a particular way of using PRP injections in the penis and post op and pre op protocols).

But, Andy Warhol said, “I don’t read the reviews, I just measure them in inches.” But this is a really good time to talk about the Priapus Shot®. I’ll send out an email to the group to let people know, but the Priapus Shot® porcedure is really in the news. To put an ad in that magazine costs you quarter million dollars and we have an eight page article now about the Priapus Shot® procedure in Men’s Health, so it’s a good time to talk about that.

This is the issue that has the article titled “New Year, New Dick”

So back to this research, it’s pretty easy to summarize and this has been out for a few months and I’ve been wanting to bring it up. It talks about this thing that we all know that women who are put on Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors often have a drop in their sex drive.

This is the paper that came out...
Click to Read Abstract<--

But what isn’t talked about a lot is that even after you stop the medication, often times they keep the low sex drive. So I have a little formula that I use before there was an “O” shot that I’m happy to share with you and then I think combining it with the “O” shot, we should get even better results. But I wouldn’t pretend like only rejuvenating the tissue of the vagina could take care of all the problems that might be going on metabolically in the brain secondary to months on an SSRI.

What I have found works the best is this. I make sure that, I’ll just bring this up where I can kind of type it out. I’m going to put this where I can make it where you can see it. This would be my of handling this and I’ve found that just one thing often doesn’t work. The first thing I put on is I like Depo-testosterone, Depo-testosterone. This is one of those drugs unlike some, where generic is fine, I don’t or I’ll compound it, can even be better in some cases. I don’t like to start a woman with creams because she may forget them, she may sweat them off down here in the south where it gets hot. Lots of things can happen.

Maybe she’s not absorbing it well and if a month later, her libido isn’t up, I have to do blood tests to know whether or not she’s even using it or absorbing it properly. But if I start off with Depo-testosterone 50 mg IM every 21 days, which is a pretty whopping dose and so you have to obviously, you don’t just put her on that and forget her. You have to bring her back about a week to two weeks after the second dose at the latest and you redo blood tests and see how she’s doing. They’ll often say their libido pops up towards the end of that 21 days and then pops back down and then comes up after the second shot and stays there. Then I’ll adjust it and then swap her over to creams or pellets after you get her libido back. But otherwise I’ve found I fiddled too long where that I know it’s in there and I know if testosterone’s going to help, that dose will help her.

1. Depo-testosterone 50mg im every 21 days.
2. Wellbutrin 
3. O-Shot®
4. Family &/or Sex Therapy

Then if she needs an antidepressant, which often times she will not after you have her on testosterone, but I like Wellbutrin. It seems to, I’m spelling that wrong Wellbutrin. Anyway, you guys know what I’m trying to write, Wellbutrin. The slow release at 150 mg somewhere in that range. That will help the depression and also help with sex drive. Then of course, the “O” shot can go in that formula now and I like to make sure of course, that someone’s thinking about whatever else might be going on at home socially, or emotionally with the woman. It’s just sexuality and orgasm is such a complicated thing. I have done some of this, talking and counseling and trying to get husbands and wives in. But, it’s time consuming and I don’t attempt it anymore. A marriage counselor or a sex therapist or both. And that combination I think, well I know, that combination has pulled without even using the “O” shot before there was an “O” shot, has pulled my people out of that.

But the reason I wanted to bring up this research, is that most people realize there’s an SSRI syndrome that causes decreased libido, but it’s not often talked about that it persists in many women for unclear causes, even after you drop the off the medicines. I’ll copy this link into the chat box so it you guys want to check that out, you’ll know where to find it.

This is the paper that came out...
Click to Read Abstract<--

Okay, so that’s the research for the day and let’s get to some of the questions. If you guys have any questions, just type them in there and while I’m getting to this other research, if you want to contribute to that cause I see some gynecologists on the call, just let me know and I’ll unmute your mike because I know that many of you have experience with this and may want to add to what we just said. And I would love to hear from you. So, there should be a little thing to raise your hand if you have your mike. Some of you don’t even have a mike turned on, but if you do and you want to contribute your ideas to that, let me know because I’d love to hear from you. Let me pull up the next question.

How long can you wait after phlebotomy before doing preparation of the PRP?

So this is a good question I think. It says, “What’s the longest we can wait after drawing the blood and before spinning and injecting? We’re performing “O” shots intraoperatively at the end of the case, who have a longer case. We like to draw blood prior to surgery. Any thoughts?” In the thoracic suite where people are doing heart bypass surgery, this is one of the places where this has been used PRP, to help healing of the sternal wound postop. The number I’ve been quoted is up to six hours, even after you centrifuge it, it can sit there. I think it’s certainly okay to let it sit there for three to four hours as you’ve indicated here in this question and then throw it in the centrifuge and inject it. That’s the answer to that question.

Now of course, after you push it through the needle or you add calcium chloride to it, all bets are off and I like it to begin the person’s body, preferably in less than a minute or two and I’m always trying to put it once I activate it with calcium. Which I hope you’re doing if you’re doing the “O” shot, activating it either with thrombin, which some of the kits have, calcium chloride or calcium gluconate. After that activation happens, it should be in the person’s body in less than three minutes.

I see Kathleen, if you don’t mind I’m going to have you pull up this next question, talk about how you deal with the ladies in your practice who have been on SSRI’s. Are you there Kathleen?

Kathleen Posey: Yeah, can you hear me?

Charles Runels: So for those of you who don’t know, Dr. Posey has seen thousands of women in her practice, is a gynecologist down in the New Orleans area. So talk to me about how you deal with the women either who are on SSRI’s or who have been on SSRI’s while I pull up the next questions. If you don’t mind.

Kathleen Posey: Very similar to you, that’s why I didn’t say anything except I agree. I mean if they come in on an SSRI and they have diminished orgasm ability, which most of them do I don’t stop their SSRI right away, I just add Wellbutrin and usually the combo is fine. Before I do the O-shot though, I really want the O-shot to work and I really try to ween them off the SSRI on to the Wellbutrin and a lot of the times I’ll do the same thing, I’ll give a shot of testosterone in it at the same time I’m doing a pellet, or I’ll give a shot of testosterone when I’m doing the O-shot because I just want them to get started and pretty much do the same, I use the pellets more than I do the injection but that’s just my preference.

Charles Runels: Okay so when you do, let me catch up with you. So when you do, someone comes in and they’re on an SSRI, you might start Wellbutrin and give them a testosterone injection or a pellet and then either do that O-shot then or bring them back and do the O-shot later is that correct?

How the Athletes Boost Testosterone (7 Ways from Fitness Volt)

Kathleen Posey: Yes but I keep them on SSRI because a lot of times, you know most of them have been on the SSRI so long I find if you just stop it and then just try to get them to go to a [inaudible 00:11:18] it doesn’t work that well. Wellbutrin makes them a little bit more nervous, it’s not as sedating and if you just give it, that’s why even the therapeutic does at 150 the therapeutic dose is 300. So if you just give them 150 it seems to work with the SSRI and then I’ll let them go a month or two talking about the O-shot, talking about testosterone and I usually try to ween them, eventually [inaudible 00:11:56].

Charles Runels: Okay. Alright.

Kathleen Posey: I know a lot of the psychiatrists do it that way too, they’ll just add …

Where do you get your supplies?

Charles Runels: Add the Wellbutrin, okay beautiful. Alright so here’s another question, it says where do you get your 30 gauge needles and your 1/16th syringes? So if you go on to the, hopefully it’s on here, if it’s not I need to fix it. If you go on to our website what I’ve tried to do is on the how to do page, so you’ll be coming from a different direction but … There should be a link to everything. Maybe there’s not. Nope. I’ll just put, I know it’s on the O-shot so let me pull it up there and I’ll add it to the vampire facelift. If you go to … by the way I just added to, let me pull this up, [inaudible 00:13:08].info … okay.

So in all the others, which I haven’t done yet on the facelift but I need to, all the others there’s a dashboard and when you go to the dashboard there’s a place where it says supplies and sources, also on the how-to-do procedure and when you click on that I just didn’t realize it didn’t have it there, maybe I overlooked it. But I know where it is on this one and right there is where I get most of my stuff from McGuff pharmacy. They have lure lock connectors, they’ve got the needles, they have the 1/16th syringes with the lure lock connection to it and I buy these by the box full for not much, there’s the part number and I’ll put this link in the little chat box and add it to the webpage where we put the answer to these questions.

O-Shot Provider Member's site
P-Shot Provider Member's site
Vampire Facelift Provider Member's site
Vampire Facial Provider Member's site

So actually most of the questions this week were on the vampire facial website and if you guys aren’t yet doing micro needling or offering it for postpartum stretch marks it’s something to think about because I’m hearing more and more that, that’s working. Sign them up for two to three treatments and it’s really working well from what I here, I haven’t treated enough to tell you first hand but I have people in the group who have treated a lot of people with that. So, but there were quite a few questions in the vampire facial and then after these questions I’ll give you guys some marketing tips on how to use those posters. Oh by the way so here, before I get to these four good questions here I just added a new dashboard and a lot of extra content to the facial. So if you go to the vampire facial dashboard I uploaded some new videos, taken from our workshops and so this is the new facial dashboard and if you go to the how to do page you’ll see some really detailed videos where some of the stars in our group, like this one. Of course Dr. Bowen’s published some stuff about this, there’s some really nice videos, especially this one where some people who do a lot of micro needling talk about it.

Vampire Hair Growth™

So, let’s see back to our questions on this page and then we’ll talk about the posters. Four good questions here. Okay first one, where’s the quiz. I’m not sure why that’s not showing up but I’ll put that, make sure it says well there’s a little quiz there to take from some people but if you’ve already had a hands on course then it’s not going to show up. You’re not doing the hands on course you’re certified. But if you’re learning this as part of an online course then there should be a quiz that shows up. Let’s see this one, good morning I have a patient who’s [inaudible 00:16:44] hair PRP after a transplant, he’s been using Minoxidil, it’s on a low dose Finasteride. The hair is now thinning considerably, what about using the PRP after a hair transplant, any noticeable difference back on Finasteride or not?

So I’m going to approve this so it’ll show up and see if some of our hair people will help answer it but what I know is some of the people have told me that they are using PRP. Of course we know it’s being used as part of the hair transplant procedure with improved results, so most of the hair transplant surgeons are doing that now but the idea of repeating the PRP every six months or so is also becoming a thing that’s done standardly to help maintain it. So the short answer to that is yes, there’s evidence that it will help as far as putting people back on Finasteride it makes sense that it would help. There’s this talk of the occasional person who gets depressed from that and I don’t have an answer for that part of it but I know repeating the PRP every six months or so has been talked about among our group as being something that’s helping. Let’s see so how many treatments are recommended for the hair restoration?

So this again there’s not one standard, I will tell you from the things I’ve seen at the meetings, what I’ve seen that’s been published and there’s been a growing number of papers published and some of this there is not a known this is the answer but I’ll tell you what I think is the consensus for now. So how many treatments? Most people go three treatments at four to six weeks apart. How long until they’re visible? It can be up to six months, they have to be patient. But most of us are stopping if we don’t see any results a month after the second treatment, which would be two to three months in and results, as in documenting with photographs, if you see new hair growth and you keep going, most of us are stopping if you’re not seeing anything after the second month. But to be actually happy with what they’re seeing it can take six months to a year.

How long until the peek effect? Just answered that. How long do the effects last? Most people are redoing it every six months or so, just one treatment not the whole serious of three. What’s the recommended fee for each treatment? Anytime I spin blood it should be at least $600 because you have cost of good and your time. Most people are charging and that’s really almost losing money because you have to pay, not only the cost of good for these kits, which can be expensive but your time, the office time, there’s this engine running every minute in your office, you should calculate what that’s costing you by the time all the people are getting paid and the lights and the taxes and everything. Every minute that engine turn cost you money. So to really come out on this, really most people are charging a series of three for somewhere between 2500 to three grand and obviously that’s worth it if you get good results and we’re not keeping the money if we don’t get results. What type of anesthesia do you use? I put on the facelift … I need to put it on the facial side. That’s why this guys probably hasn’t seen it. But on the facelift side, I just put up a new video about hair. Actually, two new videos. So, here’s one of them. 20 minutes from one of our providers up in Canada. And then, this one. This Dr. Mario is been doing hair for a long time. I think it was 20-plus years he’s been doing hair. We filmed his technique for both doing hair, and blocking the scalp. I was somewhere down in Florida when we filmed this. So, those are two new videos that I recommend you watch to answer both the blocking part, and the technique part.

When do you add in the Botox when using PRP?

Okay. So, I think that answered all those questions. Next questions, if a patient has Botox recently, how long do you recommend waiting before scheduling a Vampire Facial? So if you think about it, the Botox binds to the nerve blocker about … it takes about four hours, so we tell our people, if you get treated with Botox, wait four hours before you lie down, stand on your head, all that stuff, so that it doesn’t migrate and cause atosis. Now, if you reversed it, and you did the Vampire Facial, you could immediately do Botox. If you did the facial first though … excuse me.

So if you did the facial, you could immediately do the Botox same visit. No big deal. If you did Botox, you could do the facial and probably get away with it anywhere other than the more exacting spots, like the lower face or the corner of the eye, where migration would cause a problem. If you were microneedling under the eye or the forehead, it wouldn’t really matter. Ideally it’s either same visit, go facial then Botox immediately afterwards, and I do that quite a bit with the facial and the facelift. Or, if they’ve had the facial, just give it four hours, so it could be the next day, or later that day if you just forgot and did one in the wrong orders, if you did the Botox first. And I think that’s all the questions on this.

Dana Kirk just put in something that is interesting. Okay. So she says, “At the last International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery … ” You know what? I may just unmute you if that’s okay, Dana, and let you tell us what you … sounds like you were at a cool meeting recently. Let you educate us. Hold on a second. If you’d rather not, that’s okay, but I’d rather you just tell them instead of me having to rehash what you said. Are you there, Dana?

Dana Kirk: Hi. Yeah, I’m here.

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Charles Runels: Beautiful. Talk to us. So, you were just at a big meeting. Tell us about the meeting.

Dana Kirk: Well, it’s every other year, and it’s internationally, so they talk about the different protocols. And PRP, probably six years ago, was something that they kind of dismissed as being a standard protocol, and now it’s part of the mainstream.

Charles Runels: Beautiful.

Dana Kirk: Yeah. The recommendation is to … In the perfect scenario, you’re doing two treatments one month apart before the actual transplantation.

Charles Runels: Okay. Beautiful.

Dana Kirk: The jury’s still out as to if they do any A cell or anything during the transplant itself, but during the procedure part, they will go ahead and inject PRP at the same time.

Charles Runels: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Dana Kirk: We do not discontinue the Finasteride. That’s continued at one milligram, and that just stays constant.

Charles Runels: Okay.

Dana Kirk: The Minoxidil is just temporarily for about two weeks, withheld.

Charles Runels: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Dana Kirk: And then, you resume every six to nine months with the maintenance, so that they don’t lose the remaining hair. These treatments won’t affect the transplanted hair, but it’s in preservation of the existing hair.

Charles Runels: Beautiful. Very smart. Thank you for adding that. And then, you mentioned something in your note to me just a moment ago, about low-level laser. Have they started making that part of their standard protocol?

Dana Kirk: Yes.

Charles Runels: Interesting.

Dana Kirk: Yeah.

Charles Runels: Do they have a particular brand that they are mostly recommending, or is it pretty much whatever you round up?

Dana Kirk: I mean, it’s across the board. It’s more about the diodes or the [diudes 00:24:45], depending on what part of the country you’re from how you say it.

Charles Runels: Yeah.

Dana Kirk: How many basic lasers are within that. But for the most part, the device needs to have a minimum of 30, and they need to wear the device anywhere from two to three times a week.

Charles Runels: Beautiful. You got this down. Thank you for all the help. So, stay on the line and have … you and Kathleen both have your mics unmuted right now. There’s another question here from … let’s see. Who’s this? It’s from David. I’m gonna unmute you, David, so you can ask us your question. Hold on a second.

When do you repeat the O-Shot® (Orgasm Shot®) procedure?

Okay. So maybe the mic’s not working. So David asked, “What’s your current protocol for the O-Shot? One? Or plan on repetitive series?” So, here’s the deal with that. When I survey our patients and when I survey our providers and I ask, “What happens first and second and third shot?” What I hear is that the first time around, across the board, the hard cases and the easy cases, this isn’t merely incontinence where we get closer to 90% or more depending on whose hand it’s in with one treatment for stress urinary incontinence. Not for that, but just averaging them all together. So, this is including hard cases. A woman who’s never had an orgasm in her life and she’s trying to learn how to have an … you know, trying to get her body to respond.

We have 65% of women are delighted after the first treatment. It jumps to 85 after the second one. And so, I had the idea of maybe just making it standard protocol that everybody gets two treatments, sort of like we do with the hair. You know, you sign up, you get two to three treatments everybody. But to me, that somehow didn’t feel fair to those women, which is more than half, who are perfectly happy after the first. Now the other thing is, a lot of people are happy after the first, but if you repeat it at eight weeks, they then love it. So, after the first treatment, her pain went away, Dyspareunia resolved. But after the second treatment, she was unchained, was the word she used. Whatever that means.

So, it does seem to be additive in some people. But again, I didn’t want to make it necessary if it isn’t necessary. So the short of it is, [inaudible 00:27:20] are happy, and they seem to be still wanting to cooperate with you as a patient, do it again about eight weeks later. I wouldn’t do it any sooner, because otherwise you don’t know the results of the first one. So, do it again. And then, if they don’t respond after the second treatment by eight weeks, now you’re into 16 weeks. Eight weeks after the first one, you can repeat it. Eight weeks after that one, you can repeat it again. Then, I would give them their money back. So, that’s kinda how I go by it. If they come back after the first one and they are better, but they still haven’t seen all the results they want, most people want to pay you again. But, if they just saw zero results, I’ll usually repeat the second one without charging them, and then give them back their money if they’re not better after the second one. So, I think that’s probably the answer to that question.

Anybody else have a question?

David: Can you hear me now?

Charles Runels: Now I can. Yes. Now I can. Beautiful.

David: All right. Sorry.

Charles Runels: Any follow-up question to that? It’s good?

David: Okay. The reason I asked that, and I think I asked it once before about three or four weeks ago, is that, you know, I did an O-Shot on Diane. She had absolutely incredible results on her bladder concerns for about 10 days.

Charles Runels: Okay.

David: She was just exquisitely pleased.

Charles Runels: Yeah.

David: And then, she saw that start wearing off, as I’ve said in past conferences. Now, I’ve teamed up with someone. You know Debra Parker, I presume?

Charles Runels: Uh-huh (affirmative).

David: She’s an RN. She said that she has found that some of the practitioners she works with … she’s an RN in Tennessee or Kentucky. I can’t remember. She has said that the protocol that they’ve used in the clinics that she’s working with now, it’s pretty much go to standard three injections and charge $2100 bucks for a combination of three, and that their success has been 95-plus.

Charles Runels: Yeah. I couldn’t argue with that. You know, you may find that some people are well after the first one or two, and are not really wanting to go further, but I couldn’t argue with that at all. It’s what we do with them. Any other PRP procedures, you know, the Vampire Facial’s a series of three. So, absolutely. I think it’s worth considering.

David: Right.

Charles Runels: I wouldn’t consider it bad medicine considering it’s a fairly safe thing to do. In everything we’ve seen, it seems to be cumulative. The other thing that helps if you have … ’cause some people, it doesn’t wear off until a year out, and so do you really? That’s the question I have, do you really want to have everybody go through a series of three if maybe whatever percentage of them would have been fine with just one? I don’t know the answer to that. I could argue with making it a series of three and having a higher success rate. I’m just kind of deciding on a case by case, after each shot, deciding if they need another one.

The other thing that would add to it I think is combining it with some sort of energy source. So when I talk to the people who do energy followed by PRP whether it’s laser or ThermiVa, they do energy then PRP same visit. Their success rate of the first round seems higher and it seems to hold maybe a little longer. Again, do you want to make it the standard for everybody? It’s probably not needed since many people get better with just one O-Shot®, that’s it, that’s all it takes.

But when I talk … and we don’t have the numbers, that’s part, I want to just put in another plug for this. If you go and do our patient survey, which hopefully you guys are still putting people in, we’re trying to get a feel for that because part of the questionnaire asks people, it’s sent to them by text message, all HIPPA compliant, costs you guys nothing, I can give your data back to you. But the person who puts the person in the study puts in, did you do a laser device? Did you do a radio frequency device? Then we can follow survey data about why they were treated and maybe get an idea if it’s truly what I’m hearing, which is close to 100% if you do energy followed by O-Shot® on the same visit first time around.

David: That’s interesting. Okay, well that, thanks for that. I just want to give you an upgrade and to the point …

Charles Runels: Thank you.

David: … Diana said she wants to go ahead and repeat it once or twice, because she had such good results, she wants to have a repeat …

Charles Runels: Beautiful.

David: … and she’d have no problem in doing so.

Charles Runels: Beautiful. Well, thank you for the feedback.

Hey, just hang on the line, let’s see if you have anybody … no other questions. Any other feedback that anybody has, raise your hands, otherwise, I’m just gonna do a quick like five minute, “How to Use our Poster to Get Patients,” tips.

How to use an office O-Shot® or P-Shot® poster to help patients who need you to find you…

Okay, don’t see any other hands.

While you’re on the line David, have you used our poster to recruit patients? If so, how have you used it?

David: I haven’t really, because I deal with someone who has an existing cosmetic practice, who just has some concerns about artwork and style and things like that, so I don’t want to push it.

Charles Runels: Okay.

David: I have no problem. I have not done it, I have no problem with it, she does, so I’ve kind of backed off.

Charles Runels: Yeah, interesting. She doesn’t think it matches the office, that’s okay.

David: Yeah. I’ve used the brochures and she has no problem with handing the brochures. She has no problem with my talking about it on Facebook Live, etc., etc. I don’t know, I haven’t revisited since the first time I tried, so I’ll do it again.

Charles Runels: It does bring up a good point in that some people … and I’ll meet you here in a second Kathleen, ’cause I know Kathleen’s used her poster some. But it does bring up a huge point in that some people are embarrassed to have it, because they realize you now have a sign in your office that’s talking about sex. It could be that’s she’s saying it doesn’t match with the décor, but what she’s really saying is I don’t want a sex sign in the office and that’s okay. It’s her office, she can decide whatever she wants. Then you’ll go to an office and you’ll see, they got a Cosmo on the table and the front cover is about 16 ways to give a freakin blow job.

David: Yup.

Charles Runels: Here’s my thing about offices, my number one rule is, if you’re not taking control of the environment of your office, in my opinion, you’re losing one of the main effects of an office. I have had people occasionally come to my office and I’ll come out to bring them back to the exam room and they are sobbing because they’ll say, “I feel like this is a healing place.” What they’re feeling is that I have taken control of their environment, there is not poison in the air, there’s no TV blaring, if somebody donates magazines to my office, they go in the garbage can, because everything that you can see, read or hear in my office is good for you. I’m controlling it and if a magazine comes in, I’m gonna be advertising Botox and they’ve got an add for some stupid cream that’s supposed to work like Botox in Cosmo, so all that stuff goes out the door.

Then as far as what we put in there, everything that I’ve done, I’m trying to take the John Grisham approach. John Grisham has a rule that he never writes a book that he would be embarrassed that his mother read it. If you look at our stuff, I try to keep that in mind. These posters by the way, sit in India, they sit in Maine, one of my providers sits within a short drive of the LL Bean store, places where … I’m in Alabama in the Bible Belt, so it could be that, and I’ve heard people say, “Oh, I can’t put a poster, because it has about sex.” Again, I don’t know the situation in your office, it may not even relate to what I’m saying, but your comment triggered some stuff that probably needs to be said, which is most people find that they’re patients are so needing something to break the ice. They’re so needing anything to break the ice, because they’re afraid and they’re embarrassed to bring up the subject. Anything that you can do to break the ice, they love it.

They also have on the O-Shot® website a little five questionnaire that says something like, “Do you have pain? Are you able to have arousal?” The last question is, “Do you want to the doctor?” Adding that to the intake form gives you an icebreaker to let you know if they want talk or not.

Having said that, I’m gonna open your mic Kathleen and then I’m gonna give my steps on how to use the poster.

Okay, let’s see, you’re on mute.


Kathleen Posey: Okay.

Charles Runels: Are you using poster?

Kathleen Posey: Yes. I’ve used my poster for years, it fits in my waiting room along with the books that are in the waiting room. All my books are in all my exam rooms.

You’re talking about the patients are saying it’s easier to talk about sex. They’ll come in and say to me, “I can’t believe that you’re gonna let me talk about sex now?” What’s also interesting in what you were just talking, what I’ve also realized, I’ve gotten a lot easier to talk about sex.

Charles Runels: Interesting.

Kathleen Posey: I’ve been doing this goin on five years now and I would probably say six years ago, I either didn’t have the time, I wasn’t comfortable or I didn’t know really how to help them to say, “You know, do you have orgasms?” Now, I have no trouble asking a person about their sex life.

Charles Runels: Interesting.

Kathleen Posey: Six years ago I did and I think most gynecologists do even though we are who we are. My poster has helped, because I’m just a routine gynecologist, it’s helped my practice knowing that I’m doing something different, and if they don’t an email or whatever and having the books. A lot of times the books disappear, but I could care less, because if they disappeared in the waiting room or the exam room, they’re reading it or they’re going to give it to somebody else. I actually give out a lot of books. If they’re a hairdresser and I find out they’re a hairdresser and they an O-Shot®, I give them about 10 books, because they’re talking to everybody.

Charles Runels: Beautiful.

Kathleen Posey: The posters really help me get more comfortable about talking about sex and it’s also, I think, gotten the patients more comfortable that they can ask me.

Charles Runels: Beautiful.

Kathleen Posey: When I was doing surgery, I’d just wanted, you want to put that hand on the door when they start asking about sex, you want to run through it, I don’t feel that way anymore.

Charles Runels: Beautiful. Well, you bring up several good tips. One of them is, which before a lot of things that have happened over that last few years, not just with the O-Shot®, but other things. Why bring up the subject if you don’t have lots of options or at least some number of good options as a solution? You don’t want to bring up world hunger in part of your visit, you can’t fix it. Obviously sex isn’t world hunger, but we didn’t have as many options even five – 10 yeas ago. Now that we do, it’s more easy to bring it up. By the way, I think …

David: Charles.

Charles Runels: Yes sir.

David: Charles.

Charles Runels: Yes.

David: Dave again.

Charles Runels: Oh, yeah.

David: One of the things I’ve used as a … I don’t have as many stories as you do, so I use your stories.

Charles Runels: I mean good.

David: I strongly suggest people do until they have their own. I had a woman in the office today who came to me for orthopedic issues. As you know I’m an orthopedic surgeon and I do a lot of orthopedic BLP and stem cells and peptides and whatever. In the process there of, she said, well you know she knew my associate very well, said, “I’ve known her forever, she’s done all my facial stuff and everything else. What else do you guys do?” Man that was just a perfect opening to be able to discuss. I didn’t have a poster in the room, but I turned on my verbal poster and I started telling Charles stories about your urologist friend and taking off the market by the FDA of the product for urinary incontinence, how horrible slings were except in the cases that had to have them and it when on to the girlfriend and the banker and to this that and the Sunday afternoon when you tried it on yourself. She was just like, “Oh my God, this is incredible. I had no idea that this existed.”

I encourage people to use you until they have their own stories.

Charles Runels: Beautiful and that also brings up another thing, the people that have done well with us, like super well, like Kathleen where they’ve had really really good results as far as the marketing piece, they are out there telling stories. They’ll do a YouTube video, they’ll interview a patient, patients tell their story. Stories are the best way, that’s really how a lot of people learn.

This is where the shot lives, if someone wants to pick one up and I’ll try to expand it where you can see it a little better. That didn’t expand it, just made me try to order one. But anyway, it’s written in a … Here’s the quick way to how to use it and we’ll shut down the call.

If you guys don’t mind I’m gonna mute this a little bit, I’m gonna mute some of the microphones, but I’m happy to unmute them if somebody needs that done.

Here’s my quick version of how to use the poster.

You have it sitting at a place they will be staring at it if there’s any moments waiting in your office. Not just this poster, any poster, something you want to you sell. If you notice, the bottom of the poster has a website on it. You would like for them to go to that website on their iPhone or their iPad while their waiting and find out something about it. If they ask you what the O-Shot® is and they haven’t done that, it’s a very difficult thing to explain in the office. Especially for your staff, whose phones ringing and they’re busy, they don’t want to explain it. They’ll tell them just enough to scare them off.

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When they inquire about it, the best thing to do is do what you heard Dr. Posey do, which is hand them a book or a brochure. Something that they’ll have with them physical to look and think about so that they teach themselves about it. I wouldn’t even really try to push it to a conclusion while they’re in the office, it’s too much for them to figure out what PRP is and whether they want something. You just let them know that it’s available. You don’t want to push it on someone who hasn’t thought about it and is pretty certain that’s what they want anyway. You hand them a book or brochure. I have mine in a little stack, with a little not by it that says, “Free, take two or three.” Otherwise, they feel guilty about taking one.

I have a standing challenge, so far no one’s ever called me out on it. If they do I’m happy to keep my promise, which is that if you give away 10 O-Shot® books in your office, I don’t mean throwing them out like at one of our Mardi Gras parades or stacking them up at the gym, but I mean someone taking it from your office or you handing to someone and saying, “Here, this tells you more about what’s on the poster.” Or, “Here, I think this may help you.” If you don’t get at least one patient for those 10 books, I will send you 10 more books. That’s a standing invitation, because if you don’t get one after 10 or 20 books, then I need to talk with you more about how you’re talking about it. You should be having at least one or two, often times you’ll get two or three people for those 10 books. You’re not just obviously doing a procedure, you’re changing their life. You’re changing their relationship many times.

That’s the quick version of how to use these posters. You don’t want it in the hallway where they’re passing it. One of our providers actually has it in the bathroom, so when they’re urinating, they’re staring at the poster. It could be anywhere where they have to sit for more than a couple of minutes.

I see Kathleen’s hand back up. Let me undo your mic and then I think we’re gonna call it a day.

Kathleen, you’re back live.

Kathleen Posey: Actually, that was an old. My hand was …

Charles Runels: Oh alright.

Kathleen Posey: … a while ago.

Charles Runels: Okay, so you guys have a wonderful week.

Kathleen Posey: I was actually gonna ask you a question about …

Charles Runels: Okay, go for it, I’m in no hurry. Go.

What’s the best way to measure and adjust testosterone levels in women?

Kathleen Posey: It was back with the testosterone. Before I give testosterone or pellets or even an O-Shot®, just personally, I get their pre and total testosterone levels.

Charles Runels: Yes.

Kathleen Posey: What do you think the normal levels in a female should be? What is the limit of high that you will let it go to? I do the thing because again, it’s so conservative I want it for the boards to show that it was frankly non-existent and that’s why I gave them the testosterone. What do you do?

Charles Runels: Okay, so …

Kathleen Posey: What do you think?

Charles Runels: We’ve sat through these lectures before, as you know listening to Erwin Goldstein speak who edited the Journal of Sexual Medicine for seven years. He’s high on this website, which I’m gonna through into, post into here, which is using pre and total testosterone and sex finding globulin to calculate the pre testosterone level. If they’re having symptoms, then I like for … this is showing you all the calculations that computer’s doing for you … I like for their pre-testosterone level to be in the upper 25% of normal, that’s what I calculate for. If it’s in the lower 50th percentile, then I’ll add to it. If check it and if it’s high, and it’s above what’s normal for free, I will drop the level. I think if you don’t do that then you are sort of opening yourselves up for problems. If you’re looking at problems, not I don’t think medically, but politically it’s interesting how testosterone because of the athletes abusing it, it’s become a target for all the things with three letters, the DEA and all that.

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Even though there’s lots of evidence and I know there are physicians and women out there who feel better with the pre-testosterone that’s higher than what’s normal for a female, and I don’t think there’s anything medically wrong with it if you’re following them clinically. I’ll tell you one scenario. I had a poor little lady in her 80s who fell and broke her humerus and was teetering ongoing to a nursing home. I make no apologies, she was still bright minded and just a beautiful hearted woman who lived down the street from me. I put her on a man dose of testosterone, sent her to my favorite physical therapist and we got almost 10 more years of her living independent at home. She got a little hair on her lip, but we’d go have tea every day and she loved me and she was independent for another almost 10 years. Was that bad medicine? I don’t think so. I’m not giving her prostate cancer, she didn’t care about the facial hair so much and we had a good time. But, as far as politically goes, I think pre-testosterone that’s what you follow and there’s the calculator for it, which I’m told is more accurate than letting the lab calculate it for you using those two. You get a sex hormone bonding globulin along with the testosterone level and that’s how you get it.

Again, I start them on that 50mg IM and they get the feeling of it and they kind of blast them off and then I can drop it if I need to.

Okay, you guys have a lot of good information. A crazy good call and happy with all the participation.

Something else?

Okay, I think that’s it. You guys have a great day. Good-bye.

Charles Runels, MD

Inventor of the Priapus Shot®, O-Shot®, & Vampire Procedures® (facelift, facial, breast lift, wing lift)

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Q & A. Lichen Sclerosus, P-Shot® & O-Shot® easy & hard cases


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Charles Runels: I’m doing this broadcast from Las Vegas today. There’s an [A4M 00:00:12] meeting and I was trying to make sure I’m up to date on a few things. I bumped into one of the authors of this textbook.

I’ll try to let you guys know what I’m doing to try to keep up with our area of interest. I found … One of the authors who’s a Pharm D [Angela Pressman, PhD], wrote a chapter of this book and she alerted me to it. I haven’t read it yet, but I bought it and I’ll let you know, but it looks like it could be relevant to what we do.

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Let’s see what else is going on. I want to let you guys that we’ve put out some … We’ve put out a press release about some of Dr. Posey’s research about the O-Shot® (Orgasm Shot®) procedure and treating lichen sclerosus …so you may get some questions [from your patients] about that. I thought you might want to know more about what you should treat and what you shouldn’t treat if you’re doing lichens sclerosus. She’s actually on the call so I think I may undo her mic so she can tell you some of her thoughts about this research and how to know when to treat this and when not. She does a class and you might qualify to begin that class and that’s classroom … That’s a good thing. I’m going to unmute your mic, Kathleen.

Here we go. You there Kathleen? Hello?

Treating Lichen Sclerosus with the O-Shot® Procedure

Kathleen Posey MD, FACOG: How are you doing? Yeah, I’m here. Can you hear me?

Charles Runels: Yeah, so I just want to brag on you a little bit. I know this … I’m getting a lot of inquiries about lichen and some of it, non-surgeons are qualified to treat and some you refer instances like this. Maybe you can address what to look for, and how to take care of people, and not get into trouble. Your latest … I know that where you’ve been working for this protocol now for … Of course, you working on the surgical side and me taking notes on the PRP side, and doing the … Well, we published two papers with Andrew Goldstein and we published this so you talk about what you’re seeing and what your latest thoughts are of treating lichen if you don’t mind.

Kathleen: Okay, what I see a lot or hear a lot is the patients come in and tell me they are having painful intercourse, and they either bleed, or they tear, and or their ability to have an orgasm has really decreased. Usually, by that time, they have pretty advanced lichen. I do my exam, but they haven’t had a biopsy. I do biopsy everybody. Then I give them the offer. I offer them the option of doing the O-shot along with other PRP after I release the adhesion at the …

The main adhesions that are stopping them from having intercourse are down at the [inaudible 00:03:27]. It’s a band that forms there and there’s a lot of hesions between the vagina and the rectum. The clit, the formosis of the clitoris, I find, decreases the sensitivity and some have pain, but some have no pain. It’s more that they want to look normal and feel like a woman again, and they think their clitoris has gone away, which, of course, it hasn’t. It’s just covered over by scar tissue.

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With these patients, I start off releasing the various adhesions. Especially like this lady in the picture, you couldn’t even get … You couldn’t even do an O-shot right from the start because her vagina’s about the size of a pinball and you can get in there, and you can’t really get too much by her clitoris. I will release all the adhesions. By the time she left, I was able to do an O-shot, but where I also put the PRP is anywhere I’ve done surgery. Then I really infiltrate about 3 cc’s down to the post [inaudible 00:04:29]. I’ve also taken a 15 blade knife many times and gone up and down making slits and then spreading it so that they’re wider in the posterior part of the vagina, and the put the PRP on top of that.

About half the time it takes two applications. The second one I do six or eight weeks later. I’ve been doing this now for four years. This lady’s pretty bad, but I saw her about a month ago and she’s got more adhesions about the clitoris. I just … At first, this one, she couldn’t even urinate correctly. I had to release some more … She’s still able to have intercourse not hurting and not … I treat her about once a year, now, that lady. There are some ladies … Go to the last picture.

Charles Runels: This one?

Kathleen: No, go to the last picture. Keep going. Another one.

Charles Runels: That one?

 Chapter 15 (O-Shot®) Chapters 16 & 17 about radiofrequency and laser

Kathleen: Okay, this one. Yeah. Okay, that is the same one. This lady is not so complicated, but it still is hard. That clitoris is really bound down. When I first saw this lady, I was really afraid I’m going to have to take her to surgery, I’m not going to be able to do this, but this lady, I was able to unroof her [inaudible 00:06:04] and then you see what I’m talking about in the post [inaudible 00:06:08] is that band there?

Charles Runels: Yes.

Kathleen: You see that, Charles? That band?

Charles Runels: Yes.

Kathleen: You’ve got to release the band. Show that previous picture. Yeah, no the next picture where she’s treated. Where she looks normal, that’s it. See, she’s pretty … She came back … Can’t remember this, but I’m thinking one of the worse … I think it was six months later, I only treated her one time. Yeah, it was treated one time and she said, “I just put a white … Walk around where my index finger is, will you please retreat me?” She was having no pain, you’re unable to have intercourse where that first picture she was having a lot of pain.

I think that I’d be willing to train anybody who has some surgical procedure. This one, probably anybody that could do surgery, some surgery, can do. Those other ones, I don’t know. I think you’d probably have to be a gynecologist or urologist to really feel comfortable because you can get into some bleeding.

Then there’s the other patients that really … I had patients that have no scarring about the clitoris and just have that little band. I think you could treat that too. This lady-

Charles Runels: Yeah.

Kathleen: That to that, to that.

Charles Runels: Let me catch up with you in a bit. Let me just come in on a couple things that you say. I have seen now probably a half a dozen women and some of them in the classes I was teaching had a complaint was decreased ability to orgasm. No one had diagnosed the fact that you couldn’t get to their clitoris. They weren’t this to this degree, or just basically all scar tissue, but still there was enough phimosis … It couldn’t really get to the clitoris.

I saw a study presented at one of the meeting where someone actually documented … We say it doesn’t effect the clitoris, but there’s actually a study documenting that, that with lichen sclerosis it effects the hood and the clitoris is spared so as you said, I think the clitoris is gone if they’re lucky enough to be diagnosed which they often are not. If you have someone who complains of decreased ability to orgasm and you cannot expose the clitoris, even if it’s not lichen they probably should see someone whose … There are other causes for that and someone should look at them.

I think … Because you said, I think probably most people could learn to lis that, but they don’t want to because there’s something wrong. In my opinion, you would be a … You would have trouble explaining yourself unless you’re in some sort of surgical specialty. I think it’s better sent to one of our people.

The other thing I wanted to emphasize about what you said was that … As far as the biopsy goes, I don’t think that everyone in our group needs to be doing a biopsy, but not, like I said, difficult, but they may not want to do it. They just need to make sure someone’s had it done recently and actually treating the person. They should be sent back for follow up with whoever’s doing the biopsy. There’s a 10% chance [inaudible 00:09:36] carcinoma. We think …

Andrew Goldstein, I talked about this recently. We’re hopeful that because we’re showing decreased inflammation, that the chance of cancer is being decreased, but, which it is not using clobetasol. The cancer rate does not go down, but we’re hoping that our PRP decreases that rate.

Charles Runels: Anyway, I just wanted to kind of emphasize those things. Any other pearls about lichen? You’re bringing them back at six weeks and retreating, right? Is that what you’re still doing?

Kathleen: Most of the time, the last patient it’s about 50 50. Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

Charles Runels: Yes.

Kathleen: Charles?

Charles Runels: I can. I can hear you.

Kathleen: The last patient, yeah I had only treated once and I thought that was a six month later picture. They’re running about 50 50. Let me go, there’s another picture, a couple other pictures in a camera of the one more.

Charles Runels: That don’t need the retreatment?

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Kathleen: Yeah, there are some people that don’t need a retreatment or they don’t need a retreatment at six weeks. They may need another one at six to 12 months. They’ll call you and say, “I’m having itching.” I’m from out of town. She’ll call up I’m having itching. When I went there, she had found a loner. You just got to exam and look and see what’s going on.

Charles Runels: Yeah. Okay.

Kathleen: There’s another picture, a previous picture.

Charles Runels: This one? This one?

Kathleen: No. No. Yes. It was that. No, you passed it. The one that had all the white on it.

Charles Runels: This one?

Kathleen: Yes. Yes. Can you hear me?

Charles Runels: What point do you want to make about this one?

Kathleen: What I wanted to say about this one is this lady, with a friend of mine had actually had a [inaudible 00:12:03], had posterior [inaudible 00:12:05] removed, painful intercourse. This is what I want to keep pointing out, that the pain is there. It didn’t help it. She comes in, and I was able to unroof her clit in the second picture, do the O-Shot, do PRP and got her. Then, three weeks later she had pain free intercourse. That after picture is three weeks later.

Charles Runels: Yeah, I think we should emphasize because we haven’t said it already, this lady had seven years without sexual intercourse, seven years since her husband had been able to have a penis and vagina intercourse when you treated her.

Kathleen: 12.

Charles Runels: Oh was it 12 years. Yeah, even though she was being seen by a dermatologist. These are extremely dramatic, life changing things that are going on in your office. I think part of the take home message is just knowing what to look for, whether you’re going to treat it or not, and if you see [inaudible 00:13:16] like this, to send it to one of the gynecologists in our group who knows how to do this, and I want to reshow everybody what you can do to let people know that you’re treating, willing to look at people with lichen because they’re eager to be treated.

If you click on buyer and provider, I have icons set up and so there’s a legend at the top, and there’s an icon for if you’re using radio frequency. There’s an icon for laser, an icon for if you treat lichen, and an icon for if you’re participating in our research. I’m not sure why it’s so slow to load. Hospital, excuse me, I’m on this hotel internet, so it’s moving kind of slow. Anyway, if you want to treat lichen, then please send me an email or just call our office and let us know, and we’ll put that little icon by your name. Let’s see what else.

Kathleen: Charles, I’d like to-

Charles Runels: The other thing while I was on the subject. Go ahead.

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Kathleen: Oh okay. I’d like to add one thing. I see a lot of people from out of town, and I’m having a lady, I can’t remember where she’s coming from. I think she’s somewhere in Florida, but I would like to treat her the first time and get rid of all her Adhesions, treat her, and then probably send her to somebody closer to home that can do it. I know I’ve seen her pictures. I know she’s going to have to be treated at six and eight weeks, six or eight weeks, and then if I find the people that are interested, I’ll send those people back to people that can handle them after the Adhesions have been taken care of.

Charles Runels: Yeah, that’s a good thought. I hadn’t thought about how it goes both ways. Yes, there’s actually one of our providers, I think in Oklahoma that sent some one down to New Orleans to see you. She was bragging about how much better she got but then the provider in Oklahoma was following it with a repeat treatment.

Here’s the little legend I have. We put this cartoon of a red labia and so if you want that by your name, just let me know so there it is. Any client, there’s yours. People are looking for that. Let us know and I’ll stick that by your name.

Easy Vs. Difficult Cases to Treat with the O-Shot® Procedure

I wanted to just list out while I’m at it and talking about the O-Shot, what I would consider to be the easy things that we treat versus the more difficult. I get a lot of questions about follow up and when do you retreat or not retreat and that sort of thing, so just wanted to recover that. Here’s our easy one. Nothing is 100% but these are the ones I think where over 80% of the time either after the first shot or the second one, you’re going to have an extremely happy patient. Maybe over 90% of the time in some cases, would be [inaudible 00:16:47], decrease orgasm, and someone who’s already able to have an orgasm. This would be the lady, she can have one but it’s not like what it used to be. Decreased orgasm but can have orgasm.

Then, it would be urinary incontinence and someone where things are intact, where bladder’s not falling out into the room. Even urgent continence, we’re seeing some great results. It’s usually a mixed bag for both, but then [inaudible 00:17:43]. I know that’s a basket diagnosis, but I mean even in the ones where it’s uncertain ideology, that doesn’t mean we don’t try to work it up. The person who’s had a work up and no one’s really sure what’s causing it and they’re still hurting, that for some reason that person seems to do well with us often. The one with pelvic floor tenderness, trying [inaudible 00:18:19] injection, you inject a trigger point with PRP so pelvic floor tenderness for mesh pain. I know you’ve got some ideas about that. I’ll let you talk about that in a second.

Mesh pain and the more difficult ones, the ones where if you’re new, I wouldn’t even try these people for the first two or three months, you don’t get discouraged, I treat these people but I think in these cases our success rate is maybe closer to 50% and maybe even less, 40% depending on the person’s age and other factors. It would be never had an orgasm in their life. I think those ladies are a little more difficult to treat. A person who wants to have penis and vagina orgasm. They can have one from a vibrator, but they can’t have one with sexual intercourse. Of course, we don’t have control of the penis of that equation. Both of these two ladies, we have successes, quite a few successes, but I think that our success rate on these ladies is probably less than 80%.

Can you comment some on this mesh pain? Are you still there Kathleen?

Kathleen: Just, yeah I’m still here. Can you hear me? Hello?

Charles Runels: Yes, very well. I can hear you.

Kathleen: I’ve done it when they had perianal pain from the nerve endings around the rectum, and I’ve just injected it all around the rectum. I’ve just injected it all around the rectum and it seems to work real well. Isn’t the doctor in Europe – [crosstalk 00:20:12] yeah, isn’t she putting PRP around the pudendal nerve to ultra sound for mesh people. The lady from Spain.

Charles Runels: I heard a couple people talking about doing an old school pudendal nerve block. There was one study where the mesh was taken out and then infiltrated the field with PRP, but no one has done the study yet, showing our procedure helps it. Although, we’re seeing that even injecting the anterior vaginal wall where the mesh is. You’ve has some experience with how the mesh becomes wrapped around the pudendal nerve or something; can you talk about that? [crosstalk 00:21:00] Or something you read in –

Kathleen: One of my patients is a general surgeon at [inaudible 00:21:13] and there was an autopsy on a mesh patient, and the mesh was all entrapped with the pudendal nerve when they did the autopsy. But, even taking it out, it just has to come out in pieces. It’s so difficult. From my understanding, from that pain, injecting PRP around the … I wouldn’t do it. There are some people, that I think, do it. In Europe.

Charles Runels: [crosstalk 00:21:45] When you do it, is there some worry about injecting?

Kathleen: Yeah, just the anatomy. There’s too much you can screw up. I just don’t have the experience with ultrasound and looking around the vessels where the pudendal nerve is there.

Charles Runels: When we do pudendal nerve blocks … We did those in labor and delivery years ago. I’m hearing that just that will calm it down. Is there something about that that makes you nervous? I would have thought that was a pretty safe thing to do.

Kathleen: I think that’s safe. I’ve just done most of my deliveries with epidurals and not pudendal nerve blocks. No, I think that would be safe.

Charles Runels: Okay.

Kathleen: I would like to see what they’re doing [crosstalk 00:22:40].

Charles Runels: While I’m at it, I’ll make the list for the P-Shot® … What? I’m sorry what did you say?

Kathleen: I didn’t say anything. Nothing. I didn’t say anything.

Charles Runels: Oh, okay.

Easy vs. Difficult Problems to Treat with the P-Shot® Procedure

So, while I’m at it, I thought I’d do a list to the easy wins for the P-Shot®. So that would be decreased erection … And a reason for making this list, again, is all of us want to take care of people and not just take their money and make them well. When I don’t get someone well I give them their money back. I try to mostly take care of people I think I can get well. If you’re mostly taking care of the hard cases, I’m losing money. I recommend that you mostly take care of the easy wins, especially in the beginning, so that you don’t become discouraged.

I’ve seen a couple of our providers, just right out of the box, try the really hard cases. If the first two O-Shot®s you do are in women who’ve never had an orgasm in their life, and they don’t work, you lose confidence in the procedure. So stick to the ones that we know have a high percentage of success.

For the Priapus shot, we have decreased erection, but can still get an erection. In other words, on that erection scale from 5 to 25, they’re above 10, at least somewhere in that neighborhood. They’ll bump up about seven on that scale from your shot.

Peyronie’s disease. The interesting thing is, our easy win is most other physician’s hard win, so you still can be a hero and do wonderful things for people if you stick to the easy stuff.

[inaudible 00:24:35] Closed prostate surgery to help with recovery, but it’s in the person who could get an erection prior to surgery, of course. You do the whole protocol, and that’s on our Priapus shot website. Where you include both for Peyronie’s and the prostate surgery, including the pump and maybe even low dose Cialis as part of the protocol.

Again, lichen, we’re going to get lichen too. Lichen sclerosus, not planus … Although, I think you treated some lichen planus didn’t you? Kathleen?

Kathleen: Yes. Yes.

Charles Runels: [crosstalk 00:25:26] We had that anecdotal initially; I should put this up here. I treated a woman with extremely severe scleroderma, and they can have horrible problems with intercourse. It was a life changing thing for her with one procedure. Lichen sclerosis in men is an easy win.

The hard wins for men, I think, if their main reason for getting the shot is for penis growth … Although, sometimes that can be very rewarding. It can be frustrating, often times, in the men who has the most urgency about growing. So the men who has the three inch erection responds, in my experience, less dramatically than the guy with the six or seven inch erection or a five inch erection.

It’s a percentage of growth than the absolute. So if there is 10% growth on the smaller penis, it’s less noticeable results. Then the person who has long standing diabetes or whatever cause of erectile dysfunction, basically he has no response at all. [inaudible 00:26:55] There’s no response at all to Viagra or TriMix, and that person who probably has some vascular disease proximal to the penis is not likely to get well.

Those are my easy wins and hard wins for the Priapus shot and want to stick to these easy wins in the beginning.

Anything you’d add to that, Kathleen?

Kathleen: Nope. I think you got it.

Charles Runels: Okay.

How to do your own webinars to educate your patients…

I always like to cover something with marketing too. Let’s see if I have any new questions from the [inaudible 00:27:32]. There weren’t that many on the websites on this time around. Let’s see. I don’t see any coming through.

I think there is something meant to be noticed about, as far as the marketing goes, what I’m doing right now. This is a wonderful way to create interest before I was part of this amazing group of physicians. I would do webinars, just like this, for patients.

Back in the day, before I started doing the internet, it wasn’t webinars. It was a conference call. I would record the call and put that on the website. So, if you, as a marketing idea, the best marketing is to teach people how to be well. If you put out an email to your patient, whatever it is you want to talk about … Maybe it is dyspareunia or erectile dysfunction, or urinary incontinence, or something that we’re not even talking about here; maybe it’s something to do with the way you do Botox. If you want to do a webinar like this, the software is very simple to do both setting this up, as well as recording it. Then you have something that can go on your website and play, and play, and play.

I thought I would show you guys where I do this. I know you have to log in to go to get here. This is the software … or and they have plans that are not that expensive. Then, you send out an email to your people, you schedule it … and what you’ll find is, that even if just one person shows up, that the content you deliver is on a different level than if you sat down and just said “okay, I’m just going to record an audio or a video about urinary incontinence.”

Then when you’re done, you have the video and you can tell your webmaster to put that on your webpage somewhere. It looks like this. Most of you guys have seen this, but when I do these webinars, I put the recording either on the membership site or I put on our Cellular Medicine Association website. It just sits there to play.

This is probably the best advice I can give you about marketing to your patients. If you teach people about the disease and how to get well, then they will trust you to take care of their disease. If you go through the trouble to teach them how to be well, then they’re much more likely to trust you to take care of them.

So, the short version: teach people about the disease and they will trust you to take care of their disease.

It’s really an amazing time that we live in that we can just, almost no money, wherever you are on the planet, you can just sit down and have a conversation like this with your patients. Then when you’re done, you have a video that you can play for them perpetually on your website.

I think that’s all I have for today, unless you guys have other questions. I’ll put the transcript for this up within the next 24-hours and a link to the book that I recommended, and I’m always honored that you’re here.

Thank you for the help, Kathleen.

Kathleen: Thank you too.

Charles Runels: Alright, you guys have a good day. Bye.

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